Firefox 2, Internet Explorer 7: Random Thoughts
OK, it's official: With today's release of Firefox 2, we have final shipping versions of the two biggest browsers for Windows. My colleague Erik Larkin's extensive review of both Firefox 2 and Internet Explorer 7 has been one of the most popular stories on our site over the past week, and I'm not going to duplicate it here. But after having spent months running beta versions of both--when it comes to browsers, I've always been pretty transient--I do feel like thinking out loud briefly about where the browser war stands.
(I apologize, Opera fans, for leaving Opera 9 out of this discussion-and promise I'll come back to it before too long.)
For the first time since the bygone days when IE 4 battled with Firefox granddaddy Netscape Navigator 4, we have a real battle. (For years, IE didn't face truly serious competition--then Firefox 1.0 came along, and suddenly there was no question that it was the best browser for most people.)
In Internet Explorer 7, we have a Microsoft browser that has no glaring deficiencies--which doesn't sound like much of a compliment, but it's more than you could say about IE 6. But here's a compliment that really is complimentary: It's inched ahead of Firefox in a few respects. It's got a better printing engine. Its zoom feature lets you resize Web pages onscreen, while Firefox can only resize text, not graphics. And I like how IE now lets you see thumbnails of all the pages in all your open tabs at once. I wish Firefox 2 had all these items built in.
But the funny thing is, Firefox 1.5 already has some of these features--and dozens more that neither Microsoft nor Mozilla has gotten around to implementing--courtesy of the array of amazing extensions that let you customize the browser to a fare-thee-well. (My current fave: Google Browser Sync, which lets you turn all your copies of Firefox on all your computers into clones of each other with the same bookmarks, cookies, and other settings. It alone is a compelling argument for choosing Firefox over IE 7.)
While some extensions aren't yet compatible with Firefox 2, they're the single biggest reason to opt for Firefox over IE 7. There are IE 7 add-ins out there, too, and Microsoft is cultivating the development of more. But for now, Firefox is easily the more vibrant development platform, and it does all its good stuff not only in Windows, but in OS X and Linux, too.
As my Computerworld colleague Scot Finnie says in his Firefox 2 first look, the Mozilla upgrade is no giant step beyond Firefox 1.5. Is it a must for 1.5 users? Yeah, as long as you're not dependent on any extensions that don't work yet. Features like search suggestions that appear as you type in the search box, spell checking, better RSS support, and additional tab-related conveniences aren't life-changing, but I use most of 'em almost every day, and they all make my time online more productive and happy.
Which isn't, sad to say, true of every change in IE 7. Why did Microsoft turn off menus by default (without replicating all of their functions with toolbars), put the menu bar under the address window even when you do turn it on, and move the refresh button from its traditional location to the left of the address bar over to the right? I've asked multiple Microsoft executives about these changes, and the answers, which have ranged from, essentially, "I can't remember" to "For consistency with Windows Vista," have never been entirely satisfactory.
Change for the sake of change is par for the course with a Microsoft upgrade. And there's a fair amount of it in IE 7, while things that cry out for fixing, like the browser's convoluted configuration settings, haven't gotten the attention they deserve.
(Side note: If you use IE 6 and decide that you'd prefer for menus to live under the address bar, it's easy to drag them there. But this customization feature, along with other interface-tweaking options, is gone in IE 7; there's no way to move the menus back to where they sit in 99.9% of the planet's other applications.)
So do I have a personal answer to the question "What's the best browser?" Ultimately, I agree with Erik's take: Overall, Firefox maintains a lead, even though it's not gigantic and isn't there in every aspect of the browser. Like Erik, I think it's a good idea for anyone who's moving from IE 6 to try both IE 7 and Firefox 2.
And I'm still fascinated by one question: If Firefox had never cut sharply into IE’s market share, would Microsoft ever have gotten around to bringing its browser into the modern age?
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You talk about how IE is for the user, but Nothing about if Microsoft has finally decided to follow internet standards of Cascading Style Sheets, HTML or just continue to bully the webdesigners to design for IE.
Firefox follows standards and for that reason alone I chose FF. I truly despise Internet Explorer for the vulnerabilities and for it's interpretations of webpages.
You say IE has a fighting chance? I doubt it. I'm installing Firefox on every client PC I'm selling and removing all traces of IE. When I tell my clients it's because IE causes too much problems (spyware etc) they are more then happy enough. And they also love the Tabbed browsing.
Bye bye IE.
I can think of one huge reason not to use IE 7: It has the worst implementation of tabs of ANY of the major browsers available (for any OS).
1) They are huge in size (is MS officially endorsed by Fisher Price?). I use a browser to view web pages, not to view chrome.
2) The bar is too small, not only are the tabs huge but the annoying buttons steal a quarter of the tab bar.
3) You can not open multiple tabs from the tab tool bar (and I am not using the left panel and arrow).
All in all, I feel that IE 7 has the worst user interface of any software that I have seen in years. I think that a lot of users will be mad when Windows Update automatically pulls this one down. I have recommended that my office hold off to deploy this so that we are prepared for the training issues. This GUI is just bad.
I think one of the key differences is that you can use IE7 ONLY on the most recent releases of Windows (XP Service pack 2, and some releases of Windows 2003). Surprisingly, Windows 2000 is not supported. As usual, if you want to use the latest Microsoft software, you need to upgrade your operating system (ie: spend some $$).
I have abandoned IE on my entire network in favor of Firefox for about a year now with no regrets. My clients, after minimal training, appreciate the customization that Firefox provides them. I appreciate not having to logging in to find yet another IE vulnerability needing another patch. Slowly, Microsoft is losing it’s desirability as users become more technically savvy.
Well, it was a nice try on Microsoft's part, but, still the Interface sucks, it still doesn't render standards compliant sites correctly, it's tab feature is way behind Firefox's.....Firefox for my house thanks.
A free registry tweak is available for download to place the menu at the top of the browser pane
http://tinyurl.com/yahhul
I like the full screen mode too: hit F11 and the address bar auto hides
I'll use IE7 for those few sites the require IE, but for 99.9% of my browsing, FIrefox 2 is what I use. Opera is used on occasion, but ther are so many sites that aren't fully compliant that have issues with Opera.
Firefox still isn't 100% standards compliant, but it's a heckuva lot closer than IE. When I design websites, I always check them in Opera 9. If it'll work in Opera, it'll work in anything.
Those that whine over the GUI changes and deficiencies in IE7's tabbed browsing are doing no more than following suit with the cliche to hate anything MS.
I personally have no problem whatsoever with tabbed browsing in IE7. Someone noted that the tabs and buttons themselves were too large. This is not true in the least. Odds are that you are browsing in a resolution you have no business being in when voicing an opinion about the size of something inside of a browser.
I have no issues whatsoever with the size of anything in IE7.
-Tabs in IE7 may at the most be about 5 pixels wider(tall) than in FF2.0 It's easy to see that the tabs are actually a little bit longer in FF2.0 than in IE7.
-The button graphics themselves in IE7? Either slightly smaller or the same size than those in FF2.0. That can't be determined by the naked eye, which is what matters.
Fable, you are nothing but a fanboi. If I bought a PC from your arse and you had screwed with the windows install you would be repairing the thing before I left your shop.
Good thing I build my own machines. I seriously doubt you are even a builder because if you are you are not following standardss. If someone orders a machine with Windows and you are using IE eradicator before you deliver you are selling a machine that has been reverse engineered. That is a big no no and you are a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Get over yourself boi.
I agree, Fable. Regardless of which is the better browser, the choice must ultimately lie with the end-user, not overzealous nerds.
Firefox is great but I personally prefer IE7, it's sort of like the special child in the family that you can't help but love. I use IE7 for general day-to-day surfing, while Firefox is great for web development work. I really don't miss the menu bar, it's rather redundant and everything I need are in right in front of me. Microsoft's decision to hide it made for a more pleasant interface that's less crowded than traditional applications. The thing they really need to work on for future releases is standards compliance.
As a Opera User, I find it funny when IE7 and FF2 come out with "new features" when it was all available in Opera a long time ago . Unfortunately Opera continues to be ignored ( maybe rightfully for some websites as they do not render as well as in IE or FF ) but the more people embrace and use Opera , the better it is for the end users. Its got tabs, mouse gestures, voice, RSS among a host of features by default ! But check out the speed ... its so much more faster than the others .. Well some people just want to stick to bulky and unsafe technology , as they just dont want to change for the better and have been doing this all along. Just feel sad for people who havent been to the Opera !
Cheers
Oops! I meant I agree with notAboi, not Fable.
"I'll use IE7 for those few sites the require IE, but for 99.9% of my browsing, FIrefox 2 is what I use. Opera is used on occasion, but ther are so many sites that aren't fully compliant that have issues with Opera.
Firefox still isn't 100% standards compliant, but it's a heckuva lot closer than IE. When I design websites, I always check them in Opera 9. If it'll work in Opera, it'll work in anything."
Not sure if you know this, but there exists a Firefox extension that will give you an "IE tab". Its simply a tab within Firefox that will render pages like IE. Its definitely worth getting ^.^
I've downloaded IE 7 twice, and I still struggle with random crashes and cyber apologies for having to shut down. I can't recall FireFox crashing on me, and for that reason alone, I'm sticking with FireFox. Nothing technical about it; just fewer surprises with FireFox. And when I need to look things over in a different perspective, I switch to Opera............
Chrismgtis, I was not criticizing the tabbed browsing in IE simply because I hate all things from Microsoft. I make my living by using Microsoft products. However the functionality of the tabs are weak and the size is too large for my taste (every time I install a fresh copy of XP I can not stand it until I shrink the Fisher Price sized title bars as well). My screen resolution is not the issue.
I do have to admit that the IE7 interface is more in tune with the Vista Beta.
Still, this new interface needs work and the tabs are flawed. Also, without the menu, all functionality is not available.
Funny I've switched from Firefox to IE7 as my main browser.
All the functions I needed are in the conpact interface, which appear to allow more screen real estate for webpages.
I like the full-screen mode, the printing functions.
Strangely, the IE7 dev team never implemented the drag and drop of hightlighted text into the url/search bar. It's a rather useful feature in Firefox when I'm too lazy to type or use the right-click :D
Somehow FF2 borked the feature with the url bar, hope they fix it.
Firefox offers nice debugging tools, so it'll stay on my desktop as a development tool.
FF3 will be the one to lookout for though.
It took me a while to install IE7, since I run Win XP Pro 64-bit and I had trouble finding a 64-bit version (I initially followed a link that took me to a Microsoft page which claimed it had identified just what version I needed - just click here - but which wouldn't install). My initial impression is negative - it didn't automatically important my favorites. It wants me to specify where they are so I can import them, but I have no idea where they are. Why should I have to know that? I'm not impressed.
I strongly agree with zenwarrior, and we share the same thoughts in regards with using IE and Firefox. I only use IE in sites that require it (in case the IE tab addon of Firefox doesn't work) but mainly I use Firefox most of the time.
I haven't even used IE6 for over a month now (I almost forgot about IE lol) until IE7 came. But after a while, I decided to that Firefox still has the edge over IE.
The best thing for me that happened with Firefox2 is that it lets you recover from a crash and lets you resume what you were doing as if nothing happened + addons addons addons. Hope more will come with IE7. Rarely tried Opera so I have no comment with it.
I use FF as default it's so feature rich and customizable (e.g. profiles). However there are still plenty of instances where the website I visit will not render unless I switch to IE. I do not fault FF for this, but the preponderance of the general public will resort to IE which simply does not have this problem.