What Does "Windows Vista Capable" Mean?

Hey, Vista might not work on some dumb low end computers but it sure does beat the heck out of that copy cat Steve Job's OS X.

Vista will rip through the market and be numero uno. Thats for sure.

you're joking right, thats pretty funny, well it is April Fools day after all

bjckwheat, you are such a fag

"copy cat Steve Job's OS X."

Right, it's a copy cat because it's been out for several years...

that makes sense.

microsofts vista program is a marketing and product development disaster. with it shipping allegedly in 6 months, MSFT refuses to specify minimum and maximum hardware requirements to run this POS....

there are still new PCs on store shelves that don't "meat" the Vista Capable guidelines

mmm... steak....

I sure hope he's joking....copy cat Steve Job's? If I recall, microsoft recently came out with "Gadgets." Can someone tell me what the difference is between that and Apple's Widget....released a year earlier? Not only is it the same thing, but Microsoft couldn't even come up with a more authentic name. And isn't Vista supposed to support an instant search function similar to Apple's Spotlight?

And can someone tell me the difference between all the Microsoft "Live" stuff and what Google came out with?

You can't really fault Jobs, without faulting Gates....both took from Xerox didn't they?

Steve Jobs copcat???? Maybe most people don't know modern history about where MS Windows came from. Look, Windows is the most popular os out there but not for serious computing. If you look at the industry as a whole Unix based systems running multiple processors, running high end databases like Oracle SQL and hosting web sites with Apache. I have seen many organizations run Windows Servers and they have to have an entire army to combat all the viruses and crashes on their networks. Since Max OS "X" came out around 2000, suddenly Microsoft comes out with Windows "XP", it seems that not only does Microsoft have to copy the "X" in the name of their flagship product they also copied the Aqua interface. If all you do is play on the web, check your email and play solitare, Windows is a great. If you want to cluster, set up grids computing with ease, run SQL programs and use develop software in C++, Java or in Unix then Apple OS X is stable and reliable.

"both took from Xerox." Not really. That is a myth. Apple did not copy the graphical user interface from Xerox PARC. They hired Jef Raskin, who had worked at Xerox PARC, but who had had these graphical display ideas before he was at Xerox PARC, worked on the ideas and fleshed them out while at Xerox PARC, and then went to Apple and brought along his ideas, and took Steve jobs to Xerox PARC to show him what they had been working in order to validate and demonstrate the ideas. In this case it appears that both Apple and Xerox got the ideas from the same guy who worked at both places. That is the general story as told and documented by Jef Raskin. Where Bill G got the idea is anyones guess. Windows was vaporware originally announced to in order to hold off a competitor who already had a desktop metaphor shown and perhaps even shipping which had taken M$ and Gates kind of by surprise. The old see the other booth and then put out a press release about how you are working on this similar project, which didn't really even exist yet. Windows 3.0, which was the most Mac like version of the initial versions and the first really successful version, was probably lifted from the Mac.

moronic. jobs isnt a copycat, he just sells a proprietary, and hence crappy product. at least it works out of the box, though, which is more than i can say for the recently released vista betas...

as for vista taking the market by storm, id like to see a boycott. vista is all about bloat and drm, both of which consumers should be opposed to. the fact that their upcoming OS is so demanding on hardware should be a red flag. you can boot linux off a floppy disk.

but you can feel free to hand over your money and soul to the corporate giants... let them use your funding for R&D to further lock down your use of their products.

boycott DRM, boycott microsoft, get a clue

Welcome To The Legion of Clueless Newbies!

Anyone who calls OS X 'derivative' of anything from MS is just plain uninformed, or deluded. OS X has been leading the way while Windows 98|2000|XP has been struggling to find its way out of the coding mess its been locked into since 1999. The specs for Longhorn that came out in 2003/4 called for a minimum of a 3GHz P4 with 1GB RAM..... DOA that chip will never exist...

Vista may be a new window on the world, but the view is still the same old muck, with a new logo and alpha channels to wash away all the bugs off the windshield...

WOW I really do hope that that dude was joking when he called Steve Jobs a coppy cat, when it was him and Gates that started Apple, then Gates went on to buy Dos and thats where Microsoft started. In 1997 (I think thats the right year) Apple Sued Microsoft for coppy right infrengment because Microsoft was coppying Apple. So Mitul, you a complete idiot. Oh jp, you forgot to mention that Windows is good for gaming, it does have more games still than Apple, thats why I'm still a Windows user, but I don't pay for it, mwahaha

2002 is definitely not a "modern CPU". Compared with the chips that will be out by the end of this year, a 2002 CPU runs at only 5-10% of the FLOPS (FLoating Operations per Second). You can't run an OS that takes up X amount of FLOPS idle and Y amount of memory idle and put it on a computer that only has .7X FLOPS total and a memory capacity of .5Y total. Besides, if a computer is old enough that it can't even run a newly released OS, that should be your que to upgrade or not even bother purchasing it.

Bill G with his MS is Dinosaur who in theory must extinct....
I hope I will seen it during my life...

Vista (Piss-ta) is gonna suck, end of story. Is anybody actually excited about new Windows releases? We just use it because we have to or because it was preloaded on our computers. I can understand using Windows at work, but for personal use their is just no excuse.

3.x versions of Windows don't look similar to a Mac. 4.x/5.x versions of Windows look similar to a Mac, except that Mac uses a menu system which when you go to different apps the menu changes, and for Windows, applications show in Taskbar, which can be cluttered up when running more than 4-5 applications.

vista has no buzz

Vista Sux
M$ Sux
Bill Sux

Why do you want to buy a new hardware for an OS with many hOles LOL!.....

As Posted by GA:

OH Take that, you Mac Stupid!

Mac OS X is dinosour, too! Haha!!!

Don't ever thinking about Microsoft being extinct as you will get your Mac wiped out. Tell me you're not joking!

I'm sorry guys, but I'm here to defend Microsoft and Bill Gates. I really like Microsoft and Bill Gates. I tend to overreact when Mac/Linux fanboys want to see Microsoft/Bill Gates be extinct from the computer industry (just made me feel that I wanted to attack those users...).

Like it, or NOT!! Microsoft is HERE TO STAY. If Microsoft will be extinct from Earth, I'll be very sad to hear that. But I don't want to switch to Linux or Mac. It is my CHOICE to use the operating system, browser (IE) and media player/burner (Windows Media Player 10). Everyone has their own choice.

It looks to me that I'll take it as a joke as posted by GA.

And one more thing! Vista will never have any holes!!! I can guarantee you that.

Well how about this you Mac fanboys! Would you like to see Apple extinct from the computer industry? Linux? Mozilla, the makers of Firefox Browser? Better watch out, because I may overreact and you may see those comments comming from me if you say that you want Microsoft to be extinct from the industry. I'm just joking but please be careful about what you're saying in here.

Vista is really a bloated piece of junk. I dont see why anyone would be excited about it.

Linux is small and portable. Ubuntu is great, looks good, runs smooth, and is simple enough to use.

I run Windows, but I dont see it holding up against free, faster, and more secure operating systems for much longer.

I mean, I can load Linux on a P2 with 64 megs of RAM and it runs faster than XP on my P4 3 GHz with a gig of ram on a lot of applications.

Simplest, best solution :

Buy a Mac.

AMD's Athlon XP line was rebadged as "Sempron".

Sempron is on the list.

Bill G already make commercial with dinosaurs faces for MS products... You can see them on many magazines & TV
Looks like he fill own distinction...

What is the point of upgrading from XP? What was the point of upgrading from 2000? They never come out with anything more useful than what was in the last version. The new Internet Explorer is going to be a big hit though. Its just a copy of Mozilla Firefox with the title Internet Explorer. I love how my new version of Office is so much better than the last three too. It was well worth the $200. I mean seriously. How do they continue to sale people this shit?

Windows, OSX and Linux are all great Operating Systems, and each one of them has their pros and cons. Lots of intelligent people did a lot of hardwork developing these great products. I use all 3 of them on an everyday basis, and reap their benefits, and Im sure most of you do. The competiton between them is great for us - end-users, cos we make them work their asses off trying outperform one-another. We need them, as much as they need us, if not more. So people, stop trash talking, and start behaving like adults.

agreed. So maybe we struggle to get our Windows and Mac box's to talk... that doesn't mean we can't be friends.
l8r jerks :)

why are u guys urguing over this small thing. Everyone know Jobs copied Bill. Jobs sux and wants to be like Bill. OS X is a copy of Vista and you will see a lot of features in vista that are in OS X(copy cats)

Dan-- FYI, the current Sempron is no longer based on the Athlon XP and hasn't been in a long time... Sempron is like Celeron-- it can refer to any number of different architectures, and basically means "the cheap chip"...

I will note that I actually run WinXP tolerably well on hardware down to a 400MHz Celeron. Not brilliant, but quite useable for basic productivity apps, web surfing etc.. And I think that, plus better security, is what a lot of businesses want from Vista. So I'm not sure how Vista will shape up on this front.

QUOTE: Posted by Toshibi on Saturday, April 01, 2006, 11:22 PM (PST)

Vista is really a bloated piece of junk. I dont see why anyone would be excited about it.

Linux is small and portable. Ubuntu is great, looks good, runs smooth, and is simple enough to use.

I run Windows, but I dont see it holding up against free, faster, and more secure operating systems for much longer.

I mean, I can load Linux on a P2 with 64 megs of RAM and it runs faster than XP on my P4 3 GHz with a gig of ram on a lot of applications.

END QUOTE

I find this strange since every time I've tried Linux it has always been much slower than Windows installed on the same PC. Linux just seems to require too much tweaking to really get it to run well. I also bought a mac mini to see what the hype was all about, but quickly realized that it was basically the same as linux. For those of us who are used to the way Windows functions then it is just not very fun to totally have to try to figure out where everything is and how to do things in some other OS.

I ditched that POS Windows 6 years ago and never looked back.

"Vista capable" means it'll get viruses,worms,trojans and spyware really easy just like older versions of the OS. Plus it still (after all these years!) will be horrible at managing memory and resources and will need to be rebooted every few days.

so when will we have "Brilliant Linux Expierience" stickers ? Like, modestly starting from barely-windows-me-capable ?

It's all about the Pixel Shaders. Microsoft thinks people are too stupid to understand Vista is built on a shader engine.

One thing people forget that before windows, most hacking was on Unix machings, in some flavor or another. This lead to much industry tweaking, as well as OPEN SOURCE fix it yoruself with updates from ANYONE who knew how to program.

While this is the major problem with windows(not so open soucre unless your a vb nut) it only shows that people attack what is most popular. Thus, Microsoft seems to be the most insecure.

One of the biggest myths is that only windows is vulnerableto attack, while most websites running apache and linux flavors are unpatched, yet they take a little more of challenge to get into or infect. It's not so much the operating system, but the user using that operating system. I have been using 95/95/ and XP as well as Sun/xerox, IBM's OS/2, etc and APPLE/MAC computers.

I have to say I like Windows ease of use (once you know what sunder the hood), but do your research and secure your box on your own. That is why Linux/Unix systems are less infected, because they require more user tweaking, and thus lead to people getting familiar with how to lock down their machines. Windows is open to just about anything by default, but that doesnt mean you cant make that puppy secure and scream faster than most pcs today. I run an 800 AMD Duran with 512 megs of ram using Windows XP Professional. It is faster and more scure than any pc I have ever used, and I have all the services turned off except for what NEEDS to run in order to function. I have used PC's with faster CPU and More Memory and even MAC's with so called "top of the line" harware, and I have to tell you, I hate MAC/APPLE. In fact I wouldnt buy anything made by apple, including an iPOD.

About the only thing worth having is a dual boot XP and Linux box on any CPU. Do the math. Microsoft may be a big monopoly and annoying when it comes to maintaining it against threats, but you can't escape it's future or where computing will end up. Were not on mono-crome mainframes any more. It's time to take responsibility for your pc, and not leave it to Microsoft to keep it running. You bout it, you fix it. That has always been the Unix standard.

As far as Vista, I will stick with XP because it is fast enough and light enough(like I said, do your research on how to tweak your own box..) and will not have any HARDWARE DRM CHIPS controlling my use. That will be their downfall. I se ethem as limiting the users experience because of hardware requirements, but not because of Trojans or Spyware. That is the users fault, not the operating system. Any PC/Computer, etc can be taken over, you just need to know how. It's only 1's and0's people.

i've got to say i get pretty tired of die hard os fans just trashing each other. I use all three os's and they are all good for different reasons. Most people only use Windows which, whatever anyone says, is easy to use. Mac os is different but still very user friendly. Linux will only really take off when a distro is released that is truly user friendly.

Sure its on a shader engine, but thats not all there is to it. There is a huge list of things that make something qualify for "ready for Vista" branding. I have seen it. What I am disappointed about is that originally there were supposed to be two levels of Vista ready "stickers", and now it seems there may only be one. Before it was, "Vista Capable" and "Vista Ready". The first meant it could run Vista, but promised nothing about the graphical experience, or some of its other features. The second delineation was to signify that the computer was absolutely good for Vista, fulfilling every point on the long long list MS created to assure compatability (actually, there were two lists...)

Let the flame wars continue.
/back to ubuntu

oh yeah and

Tb: "All three OSs?"

ROFL

You mean you use Solaris, BSD, and Linux too?! wow.

Linux is the the best kept secret on the net. Let the drones use windows and have their wallets sucked dry.

Umm... Microsoft is trying to make an OS that is backwards compatible with a 330 million user install base, 100+ OEM hardware manufacturers, tens of thousands ISVs? yea that has some challenges to say least.

Apple dropped native backwards compatibility for OS9 and others when it released OSX. See it's much easier and more profitable for a company to dump support for existing users than it is to build a more complex OS that supports backwards compatibility. Plus, with so few ISVs, and only 1 hardware manufacturer (apple) is much easier for apple to control its platform.

Regarding hardware requirements, look at the difference between OS9 and OSX for some insight into the differences between XP and Vista.

I can?t think of any other OS platform in the history of mankind that has had to solve the problems that Microsoft has. It?s a much more complex problem than just trying to get Vista to run on a P4 with a 64MB AGP video card.

You people really need to get out more. OS Wars are sooo 1990's.

You're a bunch of stupid 'tards.

Vista is going to suck the bell end. I need another stupid OS like I need a hole in my head. All I want is something to d/l torrents and steal movies and music. Office can go f@$%* itself and, where's that Google OS?

To all Die Hard Linux and apple users. Whether you like it or not. No matter how you daface MS, Micorsoft is here to stay. For years die-hard linux users have been praying that MS will die and the mac OSX will kick MS butt. I don't see it coming. In reality MS is getting stronger and better. If you can't swallow it, i really dont care. The only thing i hate about MS is its price and Licensing. It's very expensive. But in terms of capability, (progamming, web, database, gaming etc) it sure can kick ass! For me, the reason why many linux users hate MS is because its not free.

The first computer I did my work on was an IBM with two 5 1/4 floppies (no hard drive) and a green monochrome display. I think it was MSDOS 1.2 that booted up on one floppy and you ran your program from the other. I thought it was the best. I have used most all the different operating systems and versions over the years and one thing is always the same. You must learn how to use them, some are easy, some are difficult. I think they are all the best and look forward to the future.

Regardless to all the facts stated, which are still good points, I still find it complete bullshit, that an operating system *needs* that high-end of hardware requirements... I mean what the hell, I wanted a system with a gig of RAM and a "nice" CPU for gaming, now it's going to be standard? I knew it'd be standard some day, but not on requirements for an OS...

I mysef like Macs and OS X, a far as windows, any version, all i can says is this: bloat

Here's what I see: Vista will be a huge flop. XP will no longer be the newest MS OS. Ubuntu will come out with XGL and become the #1 OS.

Because a lot of people still don't know where Bill Gates got the idea for its windows-GUI,

a little history:
Microsoft became big with the old MSX-Homecomputer. They made MSX-Basic and MSX-DOS, clearly

the forerunners of MS-Basic en MS-DOS.
Sony, Samsung and Philips were (besides some others) the main MSX-hardware-companies. (In

those days..., when Philips was still a real player in computers.)
When some companies (besides the MSX-world) were evolving some GUI's, Philips delivered its

own GUI for the MSX-computer, called: Ease. ("Ease, an incredible MSX Graphical User

Interface made by the spanish OperaSoft for Philips.")
Bill Gates saw the GUI-developments (on the MSX, en besides it) and knew it was the future.
He also saw the rising of the 8088-computers (industry-computers), the forerunners of the

wellknown "Windows-PC's" of today. On this point Bill Gates saw the hole world laying beneed

his shoes.
This is probable a little brainscan of Bill Gates from those old days....
(PS. The wellknown X-BOX is also a wink to the MSX-computer: Microsoft X-BOX = MS'X-BOX!)

When Viruses Intruders Spyware Trojans and Adware comes out it will be just like all the other MS products; complained about then picked apart then rejoiced about and all the delay will be forgotten. It will be neither new or cutting edge. It will be compatable with programs written for a 8086 and DOS1. What I am interested in is will it run on my intel mac either as a virtual image in VPC or as a duel (pun on purpose) boot so I can run programs by uninlightend software developers that are to lazy to isolate the operating system from the application.

Windows 3 and Mac.

Actually, Windows 3 was the most Mac-like of the original 3. Windows 95 was even more so and it has only gotten "worse" in that regard. But Windows 3 was the first one that was more of a desktop approach with active item manipulation versus the earlier two versions of Windows.

re: MS and Yaho having "widgets"

They do? Where? Show me widgets currently on XP from Microsoft. Show me the Yahoo ones. You can write little programs that will stick around, but that ain't the same. Those have been around since 1984, and if you don't cunt the original control panel, then to System 7 and the control panels... That is not what a widget is.

Just an FYI has anyone seen Sun Microsystems Looking Glass desktop for UNIX like OSs. Vista has some things that look an awful lot like it, and it's been out for a while now.

One of MS's biggest problems is security permissions, OSX, and other UNIX based OSs basicly have it setup that if you don't have permission to access the file you can't touch it no matter what you try. Which is why Windows has more problems w/ virii than other OSs.

PHB will get vista and says it runs on 512mb so we don't need to pay for more ram.
But it will run like crap with only 512mb.

"jobs isnt a copycat, he just sells a proprietary, and hence ****py product. at least it works out of the box, though, which is more than i can say for the recently released vista betas..."

WOW.... I didn't know betas were made to work out of the box.

"about mac's os x widgets news flash microsoft released that idea before os x was even released"

OK, um, Microsoft can have all the ideas it wants, but until it's out, it doesn't count. You're insulting Microsoft if you say that Jobs took their stuff, and got it working great two years than them with 1/10 the staff. I mean, until I can install a "stable/retail" version on my computer, or buy it on a computer, it's not out, and it hasn't been "done" yet.

The point is that a 700 iMac is "Tiger capable" if it has a DVD drive. You can run some versions of Linux (like DS or Puppy) on tiny and ancient computers. Ubuntu is snappier than OS X on my computer (at least off the Live DVD).

Microsoft isn't perfect. Look at all the research to try to bind an OS to a motherboard and TPM set. OEM copies of XP are basically locked to each motherboard. Buy a new mobo, new license of XP is required by law.

Apple is spending millions too on assuming YOU the paying customer is a potential thief and felon.

Apple has patents on code that translates on the fly to protect parts of OSX from being run on generic PCs. The TPM and the little chunk of data for a key stored on there is the only thing separating a Mac from a PC these days.

Neither company is an angel. Both companies will use every dollar you give them to make new ways to hog-tie you with more and more restrictive DRM.

Pick the new handcuffs you want to wear for the new forseeable future... the pretty white ones with the rainbow Apple logo, or the shiny metal ones with the Microsoft logo. Both will eventually give you wrenching pains as they are attached to leg cuffs, then a collar... then a ring in the floor.

Boycott both companies, until they realize a customer is someone who buys their product, not a potential criminal. Don't buy from companies that want you to pay more to lock YOU out of YOUR fair use rights.

""Hey, Vista might not work on some dumb low end computers but it sure does beat the heck out of that copy cat Steve Job's OS X.

Vista will rip through the market and be numero uno. Thats for sure.""

It's incredible how much of a firestorm these two sentences can generate.

Bill G have big trade and family secret:
He run MAC computer and keep it in his basement!
:-)

We truly need a MacWindux to end this war.

I can summarize.

For those that use windows and refuse to look at other options, let em'.

For those that still run linux as a server OS, great I still haven't found any better server OS than linux/unix.

For those that run linux as a desktop OS, what?! Your window manager is horrible when compared to the interface of OS X.

OS X is the most beautiful BSD box you will ever use, and those who haven't given it a shot because of the "tree hugging" history which Apple has had - are silly.

I assure you, it will impress you.

4 posts up... "Pick the new handcuffs you want"

Have you thought your rant through?

Develop some software to build a company, and have a million people crack it, steal it and take away YOUR rights (the same rights you claim your boycott is for).

What's next?

You (owner) protect what you own right? Home, children? It's all the same. They OWN the rights to the software, you "agreed" when you purchased... lol or stole... your copy that you were buying a COPY of the software not the deed to the ranch.

It makes complete sense that they try and find a path to a secure method of protecting their assets. If you think they should just throw a .tar.gz file on a DVD and sell it for $19.95 then you are sadly mistaken and need some business / economic education.

$19.95 you end with the linux window manager. No end-to-end solution which makes your user experience and usability factors drop quickly.

$99.95 or $195.95 is more realistic for an operating system and will continue to be the price point for the forseeable future.

In the end; Protecting the product is fine. Considering that I work for a living and don't pirate software... For some reason I don't have an issue. However, you feel your freedom is being taken away, when in fact you are infringing on their freedoms by wanting to not allow them to protect themselves.

Hmmm... Interesting.

Vista will be better than xp, its a full rebuild and not another stack combo like win2k>winme>winxp>winmc and such, so it won't be too 'bad'. However, the computers that they say it needs, might be a little off, I mean anyone who is in the market for vista will more that likely have the hardware to back it up, and if not I'm sure there are tweaks that can be done to get rid of all the BS eye candy (IMO) that they expect to 'highten' our 'experience'. In the end, I'll still be on linux, download and install all the cd's and software and you're set, learn how to install three main types of files and you can pretty much figure it out from there.

I play games, and the only answer is Windows. Macs dont work with most games, and the games cost more money, especially older games. I run thousands of programs as well, and very few would work on Mac.

Also, everyone complains about new operating systems. I dont know if anyone can remember a few years ago, everyone said that Windows XP was the worst operating system, and they said they would never upgrade to XP.

Also, everyone complains how buggy Betas are. Duh, Betas are TEST VERSIONS. Even after the OS comes out, there are usually patches and upgrades required, because every program has to upgrade to the new and improved security methods and graphics...

People even complained about how Windows 98 was the same as Windows 95. Maybe we should all go back to Win95? I am sure that is the best solution, that way everything will run fast and we will have all the great features we need. I cant wait to install Win95 again.

Your computer is 4 years old man in computer years that is a lifetime and although it runs Windows XP just fine Since it was made the same year as the release of Windows XP I see no reason that a 4 year old computer should be able to run an as yet unreleased version of windows. Perhaps, you would like for it to run on a 486 with 2 meg of ram, which ran Windows 95 just fine(sort of) but was made for the Dos era.
I don't have any problem with Microsoft requiring users to have modern equipment to run a full blown version of their OS afterall you might need a faster CPU and a modern GPU to play DOOM3 or Halflife2 to their full potential.

Ok, this post will likely be lost among the masses, but, let's clear some things up here.

First off, the comparison between Linux which can be booted off a floppy disk and Vista which is a "bloated" operating system. That's like comparing the Sears Tower andto your house - calling the Sears Tower junk because it relies on much more advanced (and more in terms of mass as well) architecture.

Anyways. Vista is NOT just a new look, it is NOT just XP with alpha channels. I'd recommend that someone do their research on something before spewing rhetorical bullshit to and fro and making a mess of everything.

There are quite a few very key features in Vista that end users ought to be excited about - for me, that's as a gamer, programmer, and file-share-er... or something. Vista actually monitors program use and intelligently assigns processor time to applications as it sees fit - it will give less processor time to virus scanning programs, and more to the game that you're playing (anyone who plays games and has virus scanners knows how crappy it is when the autoscan activates in the middle of a game). Less processor time for file sharing programs and more for your video playing program (read: computers locking up while hashing and verifying the contents of a just finished download).

So that's just the processor time management system. Let's not forget the new DirectX 10 which is a beautiful step in the right direction. Windows XP was only clunky because of backwards compatibility - Microsoft strived hard to make it work on all types of PCs. I had it running on a 300 MHz HP with 32MB of RAM decently back in the day - with a Radeon 9200 or some such. Anyways, point in case, Vista stops this habit of backwards compatibility. Vista has high requirements - that's something people ought to appreciate. This means that it won't have to have legacy drivers and processes to make sure that there's seamless integration of new and old technology. Among the biggest is the drop of backwards compatibility in DirectX 10 which is working towards a more unified graphics programming architecture for gaming and also dropping many of the legacy routines of DirectX 9 and before.

That only scratches on the surface of the improvements in Vista.

So consider this your heads up. Pull your heads out of your asses and start reading about shit before you start spewing it. Seriously guys.

Vista will be the greatest OS whenever it becomes available.
Jobs is a copy cat for sure

I don't need Vista the greatest. I will stick with lowly copycat Job's OS X and do my work with it.

Here is what I look for in an operating system:
1.Performance. This means I am able to perform any typical computing function I wish without having to buy a "modern" system. I note that starting with the NT versions of Windows, this quality has been on the decline. Today I am running XP that has been customized beyond belief with such third-party software as XPLite and TuneUp Utilities 2006. I applaud *NIX operating systems for their performance, but continue to use my customized XP just to stay in the mainstream.
2.Compatibility. I support open source and open-document format. Compatibility also refers to the fact that older hardware should be supported by newer OSs.

Here's why Vista sux:
1.Performance? Impossible because useless junk that nobody wants is included. A firewall that filters outgoing data? Instead of including stupid programs that have free substitutes online, how about including MS Office with Windows?
2.I swear there is a conspiracy agreement between M$ and hardware manufacturers. Make Windows a resource hog so that people buy newer computers...

One word, HOT FIX
Windows notorious spaghetti code gives birth to Vista.

y dont think the new window will do so well because every one i know have window xp. the change to the new window will be slow.

lol VIA's line of crap processors supposedly run Vista fine but an Athlon XP or P4 500 series isn't even mentioned. Bulls***, both those series, even earlier models, wipe the floor with any of VIA's chips.

Heh. The first post was very amusing. I support Vista ... but only cus I wanna play Halo 2.

"I swear there is a conspiracy agreement"? Hey?
It seems like it but file a lawsuit to be sure:))

Note to Religious Warriors of the Great OS's:

1. A computer, or it's OS, is only obsolete if it no longer does what you want it to do, period.

2. Individuals who _must_ have the latest and greatest are in the distinct minority.

3. I'm still using WIN 98SE (patched like *ell) and a 1.2 Ghz AMD machine, and I'm perfectly happy with it, and with the vast amount of money I've saved by not buying into the "Planned Obsalescence" paradyne. (Oh, and we do a lot of 2D and 3D graphic art on it, too.)

As a matter of fact, I just took a week-long trip to Hawaii on what I had NOT spent on hardware, software and OS's in the past four years. It adds up to quite a tidy sum, well into four figures.

So when you're all thinking about which IT black hole to pour your money down, think about...well, maybe you better not.

"the AMD list doesn't include the Athlon XP": AMD has renamed their Athlon XP line to AMD Sempron (which is on the list), so Athlon XP will run Vista just fine.

LOL all these mac fan boys just got TROLL3D!

Each OS has it's good points and it's bad points. What matters is what you want your computer to do. If all you do is play games then go with MS. If you do graphic design go with Mac or an UNIX SUN. If you need a SQL data base and web server go with one of the UNIX types, BSD. An older computer will run the BSDs just fine and is rock solid stable.

Boycott all DRM, especially Vista

Does anyone remeber when XP was coming out. It too was considered a demanding OS, 512 mb ram to run optimally, ahhhHH! Everyone was adamant they would stay with 2000 and be happy, right. The same kind of debates are coming up right now, let the people happy with XP be there. Also, when you consider an XP machine, for most people's purposes(DX 9 gaming - C&C Generals?), can cost $500 retail, and a Mac OS X system, conservatively, is around $1000+. I'm happy with windows, and I also think the rest of the gamer's market is too. I'll give Apple their cool interface, original ideas, etc. but I don't think thats enough to win the market share. And *nix definetly dominates the power users market. I happen to use a dual boot of Ubuntu and a stripped down XP on my laptop, works great for productivity and gaming, no sacrifices.

Outgoing firewall???? What?

To my knowledge, Konfabulator started the widget game (at least how it's viewed today). Apple stole the idea from them, then Yahoo bought Konfabulator (several months ago).

Microsoft's implementation of "widgets" is just poor (at least the beta 2 version was).

I was a Microsoft fan for quite a long time, but I actually sat down and gave OSX a chance and just like where it's heading. In my personal opinion, OSX is a modern OS, Vista is not.. at least not yet.

I really don't care who stole what from who for how much. However, I do care how each of them implement things. I very much prefer the way OSX implements widgets, desktop searching, and just overall operations of the OS (plus, I love having it sit on top of unix).

Just my 2 cents...

listen people.. calm down.. porn looks the same on window, MAC and anything else..so all of you just go back to what you really use your box for.. looking for nakie ladies.. because everybody up here has a serious case of the geeks.

Haha, all of you people complaining about Microsoft are using Windows right now. You are free to use any OS that you wish. If you are too stupid to install a different OS, perhaps you should not use a computer all together. Windows IS the best operating system right now and unless some real company makes an operating system that is comparably non-proprietary and not open source, Microsoft will always rule. For now, Windows is the best, which is why almost all of you complainers besides the small amount of Apple fans and linux rebels are using Windows _ right now.

The very reason VISTA will beat out all the other OS's is game support. Like it or not people like to have fun with their computers every now and then. Gaming is a major industry, and the only system you'll see running the lastest games at their highest settings is a windows machine.

I can tell you right now that alot of people that I know would gladly switch to a mac, myself included, if it could play most games. By "play most games" I mean I should have the ability to buy just about any game on the self and play it. I should have the ability to increase the preformance of my machine by getting the lastest in graphic card techonlogy. IF a mac could run most games better and faster than a PC then I'm sure you would see alot of people make the jump to a mac.

People are not buying $500+ graphics cards so that solitaire runs faster.

Well I myself rarely play games only educational ones like scrabble; but I am not certain myself what all this Vista is about to be honest.
I have XP pro 2003 what will this all mean to me?

Windows Vista is a joke, like every other one of Microsoft's products. It's main feature is Aqua? er, Aero, which requires a system with a ludicrous amount of processing power and resources, which is due only to the exceptionally poor level of programming which Microsoft are famous for.

I think that I'll stick with my Mac mini, which runs an operating system designed and programmed by engineers rather than marketing personnel, and which comfortably renders user interface effects in addition to providing an experiences which will forever be far beyond Microsoft's capability, using only a PowerPC G4 processor with a clock speed of 1.25 GHz.

I'm sorry if my message seems rude. I don't think you would find it rude if you knew as much as I know about Microsoft.

My God. Windows zealots are everywhere! RUN!!!!

If Microsoft comes out with a product not as streamlined as linux then they have failed. My girlfriend although she can't use it cause it kinda dificult drools whenever I turn it on. Because I'm running it on a 800 mhz processor and it looks better than her dell 2.8. Spyware free and faster on the net than her machine. And its got all that cool stuff from mac os. Mac OS is right now the pinacle of what an OS should look like and work like if your job is to make OS's its gonna be better than the mac. And if your doing anything that requires alot of processing editing, gaming, you should really be doing it on a mac and it works way better. But I thought anyway that microsoft help makes the operating system for macs.

I'm sorry the guy who first posted is a moron, you can't be a copy cat if you come out with it first you tool. Yeah Jobs comes out with widgets and then Gates and Microsoft then make gadgets which are the same f-ing thing. Thats right Jobs if the copy cat you tool. I guess it's true the true windows believers really are brain dead. Even the people who work for Microsoft and have been working on vista say it sucks, you're a douche.

Kids, kids, kids... Mac, Windows, Linux - who cares which is better. Chose the best tool for the job. If you work in a large organization, chances are you will have to factor in your ability to hire and retain competant support staff for monkey users. Think it will be easy to find a truly good Mac support person when they occupy a rock solid 2% of the market share? Or how about truly competant Linux support when they are holding tight at 1% of the market? I mean truly competant support, not someone who revels in hackign together crappy hardware and gloating about how they got a 386 to Doom in some emulation mode in Debian... How about your average end user - are you going to drop buckets of money getting them used to the less common OS?

If Linux were goign to have taken over, don't you think it might have made some useful inroads by now? You kids are dreaming. Linux/Mac X are the beta tapes of the world. Windows may be inferior, but you will continue to see it after 07.

vista will have halo 2... vista rocks.

mac sux

One, Linux will never be adopted by the masses until it is easier to use. Linux has a very steep learning curve. Plus, it has almost no support for gaming. It is great for research and other professional tasks where you want your machine to be doing something specific.
As for the Mac's, I have three things why I will never go back.
1. They did abandon their previous users with OS X.
2. Apple does not work well with other companys. No compromising, it is all Jobs way or the highway. That behavior of Steve Jobs is what led to Apple's near demise in the computer world 20 some years ago.
3. All the Apple fanatics out there is the last reason. I am not willing to buy anything from Apple after having to deal with so many annoying people trying to shove apples down my face. They need to get a grip on reality, Apples are not perfect, they have their pro's and con's like all the other systems.

And while I am not all that impressed with Microsoft, XP was better than 98, and I am willing to see if Vista will be better than XP. Also, Vista will scale down to older machines, the hardware requirements are mainly to have all the fancy eye candy.

At least you can run windows on a mac now-a decent OS on a mac at last!

I'm so sick of hearing about how awsome and cool jobs and the freakin ipod are supossed to be.

If it wasnt for gates allowing office to run on the pos MACs they would have become extinct a LONG time ago.

Another thing I especially fond of is all the cool cats out there walking around with their little ipods thinking their so unique. Freakin lemmings! You're not special or unique, and yes my 2000lbs vehicle may just hurt as you walk accross the street illegaly because you're far too busy enjoying your "i-tunes" to notice your surroundings.

The fact remains that for professional networks, average mom and pop email, and gaming MS will always be king.

Which brings me to another thing EU is nuts! MS to give code so other oses are compatible???? I can understand unbundling WMP or IE ... but give open source ppl the keys to the kingdom? They're nuts!

LBJ, KGB, FBI, CIA, JFK, TNT, PCP, PDQ, ASAP, IBM, STP, WTC, KKK, OSX, XP....IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY!!!!

does anyone know which Intel Mobile Platforms will work? I'm about to purchase a laptop with a Core Duo 1.83 Ghz and a 915 Chipset - I'd like to install Vista at SOME point on it. Should I be very worried?

i am tried of the Windows run, time for some new players. Windows is played out some kid should come up with a new OS. everytime my system goes down after a hard month of gaming i have to reinstall and then i had to call the overlords at MS for a NEW # so i can install it again!!!! then i am talking to some indian and not an American Indian about why i have to call for a new # because they dont under stand english? they read from a script and can not deal with a person that is a little pissed. because i have spend alot of money with MS and should not have to call Bill for a new # because he is afraid he might lose $180.

I just don't get the fanatacism. I remeber the days of no hard drives and 360k floppys. None of today's OS's suck. They are truly amazing. People who gloss over the incredibly difficult task of creating an OS that can work with 99% of all of the hardware, firmware and software out there are simpleminded. It this regard, Microsoft must be given the edge. It is a lot easier to make your OS more stable when you have total control over your product like Apple does.

It is all GREAT and getting better!!!

The real reason that windoze is so popular is....
The Great Conspiracy Theory:
Most people run Window$ at home "because that is what I use at work". The reason that companies run windoze is as follows:

1. If you are an IT manager your goal in life (by definition) is ... wait for it...
"To Build An Empire"

2 if you accept 1 above then given a choice between operating systems - one of which takes 1 100K support person for every 10 computers - and another which takes 1 50K support person for every 50 computers you'd choose... Windoze!

Therefore:

Most companies use window$, and the sheep have to have the same thing at home - so Windows is ubiquitous. Most games are written for it because the market is bigger. Most software is written for it because that market is bigger. Bugs and attack-prone systems keep lots of companies in business (Norton, Webroot, Trend Micro, etc.). Many people who specialize in just cleaning windoze computers and making them work at all. There is a whole industry that has been built up around dealing with the flaws in window$. Vista is gonna be a nightmare, but it is supposed to be that way - otherwise all of these people would be without jobs. Think what would happen to the economy if Gate$ and Co actually released something that worked - 90% of the people in the average IT department would be out of work - little computer places would close down - All of the service 800 numbers that go overseas would have to close - the world economy would crash!

So don't complain about Willie boy and his lousy software - cheer him on - he is supporting all of us one way or the other as the sheep will continue to buy it because "that's what I use at work". Those of us that know - just don't buy it - use linux or Mac - or something else so you don't have to spend your life keeping things running. Let's face it - a computer is a tool. I don't want to know the chemical composition of the lead to use a pencil - I just want to use it.

TTFN

Golly, can't imagine why an operating system that says it requires a 64 bit processor to run all features would actually require a 64 bit processor to run all featues. Wow, could it be that guys who write operating systems for a living know more than someone who plugs and plays. They might rabbit, they might. If you want to run Linux on your Athlon XP unti you can't buy any new software for it, have a party. If not then remember that operating systems sometimes have minimum system requirements just like any other software.

waiting to see all of the bugs worked out.Hope that it can downloaded online or from a local store in Toledo.

Jesus Christ! I can't believe I almost read all this crap!

You won't need Windows to run Windows apps much longer. The Darwine project will enable OS X on Intel Macs to run them. Bye, bye Windows.

Reverse firewall is old hat. Little Snitch has been available for OS X for years. Just another thing MS is copying from the Apple world.

If you want to play games, get a Playstation or other game console. That's what they're for.

"Golly, can't imagine why an operating system that says it requires a 64 bit processor to run all features would actually require a 64 bit processor to run all featues. Wow, could it be that guys who write operating systems for a living know more than someone who plugs and plays. They might rabbit, they might. If you want to run Linux on your Athlon XP unti you can't buy any new software for it, have a party. If not then remember that operating systems sometimes have minimum system requirements just like any other software."

His point of contention is not that the minimum system requirements are over his specs, it's that it's too high for what he's getting. What is Windows Vista doing that Mac OS X and other operating systems couldn't do 2 or 3 years ago on worse hardware?

I still don't see why people get so bent out of shape about this.

If you like Vista, buy it.
If you like Mac, buy it.

No one is forcing any of this on you. If you think your choice is the only one, fine. Use it and find something more productive to do than just waste your time bashing other products.

I'm plenty happy with Windows and at the same time see there are certainly benefits to be had by Mac and others.

If you're so against Vista, then why don't you simply go buy a Mac and forget about it?

I'm all for more acceptance of any other OS. If it helps me get my job done better, I'll buy it. I could care less who created it.

And get off the who copied who thing. It's completely irrelevant.

why would vista be any better than any previous crappy bloatware?

I am reasonably happy with XP Pro, and have no plans to upgrade to Vista.

Vista pushers can go to hell.

MSoft fanboy are pissed 'cause they see the writing on the wall.

A /Direct 9/-class graphics card?

.. well.

Did somebody actually bring up "gadgets" as though they were an Apple invention? You people so crazy.

I don't see where people get off thinking Apple's absolute robbery of BSD and the NeXT interface is really original and different. I've used Vista and I can easily say the interface is more intuitive.

All you mac lovers, Steve Jobs ass kissers and all the morons posting on this website should go F@#k off, including myself... Gnight and F#$@ off.

Southsideraz, no one needs opionion of a racist bastard like u

I'm not a fan of flame wars, but I'll add my 2? to this "discussion". I've been IT for over 15 years. I run Windows all day at work and happily come home to OS X at the end of the day.

As far as I'm concerned, Vista is just XP with a (somewhat) prettier face and some features that should have been there for years. I think of it as XP SP3. Will we upgrade in the office? Eventually, once XP is dead and it becomes impossible or nearly so to get machines with XP licenses any more. I have no illusions about switching to MACs at the office. Ain't gonna happen. Only way it would is if Apple started selling the OS for beige boxes over the counter. Then, maybe, it would have a chance of penetrating a large enterprise. In fact, I think it would have a good chance if they did that. Much easier to sell the suits on an OS switch and new apps than it is to sell them on hundreds or thousands of new boxes. Hell, we upgrade the office suite every few years anyway and we used to upgrade the OS every few years (when Bill actually shipped new OS releases every few years), making the switch to MAC OS isn't any more radical than making the move to Linux. Think about it.

WOW! SERIOUSLY PEOPLE GET A FREAKING LIFE!!! THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS GOING ON IN THE WORLD THEN THIS SHIT!

Wow... After reading all of these comments I've come to the conclusion that I have entirely too much time on my hands, and I'm pretty sure that Grayson Peddie is a pseudonym for William Hung.

WOW...who ever like MS has a complete lack computer history.

Vista will be crap, even in beta its has plenty of problems , but heck what do I know im only 18.

It may be just opinion ,but if games get made for mac since it has a intel chip now it will wipe MS of the face of the earth.

We need OSX/Linux/UNIX. Vista may make the MS fans happy but I don't want to help Bill.Gates take over the world.

We need more diversity in the gene pool when it comes to operating systems. You know what happens when there is only one family and in-breeding happens.

You get birth defects, and that's what Vista will be, a birth defect.

The only reason I can't switch to another OS is because of the bult in ( non-standard-standard ) dependency on some poor web implenentations that demand ( IE ) for that optimized experience.

WOW! People here need to really just sit back and have a nice drink and relax a little.

I use a Compaq PC at home running Windows XP like a champ and then I go to work and use a brand new G5 Duo Processor with 2GB?s of ram. Surprisingly I can render special effects on my PC at home a lot faster then I can at work but my home pc is really a power house. I would pick a G5 over a PC any day any time when it comes to doing editing for video. I have used both G5?s and PC?s and I am happy with both.

PC?s have some great software out. Microsoft office for the PC works way better then the mac version. PC?s also have a lot more software out then macs do.

Apple has some awesome programs like PC?s. iPod?s are great and will hands down beat any other mp3 player on the market. The editing software for mac?s is far better then that for a PC (for LOW PRODUCTION stuff).

Apples iTunes is awesome. For all you people out there that like to download music with out paying for it seriously belong in jail. IT?S STEALING NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY!!!!!! I am 100% for copyright law.

If you get bored today make sure you buy a couple episodes on ?MONK? THAT SHOW ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

something some ppl may not know about linux, it will run on everything from a 386 to a pent4, and serveral others including the pre intel mac's

I agree with Jesus!
Christ..I read the whole thing!
I hope some Linux expert will send me instructions to make a simple change in Linux...I would use it but I am unable
to fathom its secrets..BYE!

To put it frankly, Windows is a terrible operating system. It always has been, and it always will be. The fact that the source model is closed prevents people who know what they're doing from writing code to patch the system.

Instead, they must wait several months for an official patch to be released which most of the time doesn't even fix the problem. Aside from a few instances, Microsoft has not made it a practice to release patches before serious flaws are found (and often exploited) by the general public.

Unfortunately, Windows is unlikely to ever be under an open source model. Microsoft won't let it happen. It seems as though users will always have to put up with the lack of decent support from Microsoft.

It's unfortunate that the protagonist in the operating system market produces such a low quality product.

And due to much ignorance, Windows is the opiate of the masses.

I think too that Vista has a WAY TOO HIGH demand for hardware. I'm really not that excited about it. They've done so many things that are different that many people may have to learn the computer all over again (lol)! I've always been a fan of MS, Bill Gates, and Windows, but the fact that Vista has a high hardware demand is making me question myself.

anyone wanting to give linux a shot, google for "rute tutorial" linux has no secrets

I'm tired of reading all the single line comments like "Windoze sux" and "Macs sux"... Take the time to justify yourself a bit... I won't even begin to comment on the "Bill stole this / Steve stole that" crap, since its over; how many consumers actually care who was the first at anything, all they care about is the implementation. Personally, I run a dual boot Windows/Linux box and a dedicated Linux test server, only because of the price difference between my windoze computer and that of a mac (almost twice what it cost to build my own). Face it, Macs have been ahead of the OS game for quite some time, and they still will be after Vista; you will end up paying for this with the hardware. I personally dislike Windows, but I understand that it is human nature to fight against change, hence the large windows population.

Point is, Vista will HOPEFULLY bring about good changes from XP, (things that are long overdue). I do not think it will be as good as OSX, but it'll sure be a hell of a step up from xp. As far as system requirements go, the 512 MB of ram is reasonable in the current market, but the requirement of a dedicated graphics card will hamper many "basic email n surfing" people who go out and buy emachines boxes off the shelf at Bestbuy/Circuit city stores. Just run a windows-like version of linux (i.e. linspire / xandros) which is rather simple to learn. Let people decide for themselves.

2 points:
1) My Great Grandfathers tube radio warmed up faster than windows.
2) Why does yet another new OS need yet more processing horsepower to make it go the same speed as the last version? Something is seriously bloated!

I like both Windows and Mac but they both have disadvantages.

1. Windows is very HW flexiable. I can build my own PC, chose my motherboard and CPU and other parts and this OS will run.

2. All my Favorate games are on PC. There is no way I would consider a MAC to play games. I like tuning my Graphic board, use SLI and other fun stuff that only windows enviroment can provide.

3. MAC interface and ease of use is tottally Awesome! I prefer using Macs for fun creativity stuff like iLIFE.

Macs are Luckly (so far) with virus, etc. because they have a small market share and do not interest hackers but this may change. If all the hackers put all their energy in creating virus, etc. for Macs, I am sure the current version of OS X would look unsafe. I would not blame Windows too much but I must admit, Microsoft is slow in action to address the issues correctly.

I am looking forward to trying out Visa. But it will be hard to beat the coolness of OS10.6 and all that is bundled in it.

I did not upgrade from 98SE for a long time. I thought 2000 and ME were buggy. I was not an "early adopter" to XP, because not only did software not always work -but hardware. I own a giant 3 ft. color printer and have to have a WIN 98SE machine dedicated to it.

Now I love XP. Starting with NT code, and dumping the excesses of the 98 code -XP has a good foundation however it is a memory hog. I know a programmer at MS and he agrees that all code goes out sloppy, so Vista will be the same until a first major hot-fix is done. That is the business model.

As for OS debate taking place here; it seems off subject. Who cares. It would be more interesting if posts came with an answer- early adopter, wait for the SE, wait until I buy one preinstalled, or I will never purchase this product...

FYI, computers in your local Future Shop or Best buy should already be showing this "Windows Vista Capable" sticker. The sticker appeared to my suprise two weeks ago on a notebook of all things.

did anyone notice at all that the original copycat statement was posted on april fools day?

Wintel and now Mactel, Jobs and Gates, it?s all the same in the end...so what?s all the fuss about, at the end of the day the two of them are probably playing golf together right now laughing at this blog!

Hi guys, just in case you thought I *read* all the stupidities in this discussion, I just had to check how long the list was and how many morons actually still indulge themselves in discussing why this OS and that OS is better, and are so absorbed in their little world they don't even notice when some clever person plays them for April fools. Great entertainment!

"2. All my Favorate games are on PC. There is no way I would consider a MAC to play games. I like tuning my Graphic board, use SLI and other fun stuff that only windows enviroment can provide."

Well say goodbye to that. Vista will probably kill all your games that are rated at pg13 or above, and get used to carrying a breifcase full of CDs and DVDs to LANs or friends houses because it'll do its very best to kill no-cd patches as well.

Oh, and if you like anything made by iD software or anyone who licenses their engines... TO BAD. OpenGL under Vista is inside a wrapper of DX10 lameness. Goodbye 80fps... hello headache.

"Umm... Microsoft is trying to make an OS that is backwards compatible with a 330 million user install base, 100+ OEM hardware manufacturers, tens of thousands ISVs? yea that has some challenges to say least."

Uh-huh. Trying so hard they can't even include support for 100s of models of DVD players. Oh, and they're not trying to make an OS that's backwards compatible with ANY hardware manufacturers, because unless you buy a new PC it's going to run at around the same speed as Stehpen Hawking.

(Apologies to steve for the analogy)

PS: If a bunch of geeks doing it in their spare time for free can make an OS that runs everything from P2mmx's to PowerPC G5s, then sureley a company with billions of dollars at its disposal cvan handle it. Your argument is flawed.

its great how all of u idiots never bothered to notice IT WAS AN APRIL FOOLS JOKE!!!!

Vista will be another poor fully-blown-up assisted dumba** os like xp started with. i cant believe that all those beginners love this and in fact feel like some professionals....

im looking forward to the day, when the world starts to conprehend that ms-stuff is like a piece of poo: everyone has it, but nobody likes it.

Everyone is comparing Apple and Microsoft. They are running under to very different business ideologies. Mac OSX is good but is only used on Apple computers and you can a variety of OSX (Linux, Unix) running on several machines out in the market. Apple does have pretty machines and a nice OS to go with it. Apple has always been about the hardware and not so much about the software. However, Microsoft is not designing hardware (minus XBOX). MS is by and far a software company. This is how Bill Gates was able to seize the market. Windows allows users to build their own machines to their own specs and have an OS that can run those devices within the customized machines. Remember, hardware always changes but it's the software that people see and want and it's what people see first.

Bill Gates never had an original thought in his life. Micro$oft always has and always will survive on ideas stolen from more creative, but less powerful, innovators.

Hey everyone wake up !!! LINUX can run on anything : lets say pII and up, and is rock solid !!

No one Coppied, some salamander revealed it.

i think xp is ok, but linux is better. i HAVE to use xp somtimes for school projects like autocad and inventor.... Linux looks more visually appealing and the gnome desktop is more intuitive than the single start button...

well if vista is going to make me buy a beter computer then i will go with linux or someother brand,, i cant aforde a mac, and for all the years that they charged a arm and a leg for it i will never buy one ever .......

Each OS has it's perpuse:

Windows: Pros: Most software runs on Windows. Fairly easy to use. Usually preconfigured. Cons: Massive security problems, slow, bloated, drakonian DRM.

Linux: Pros: Most versitile OS in the world and can run on 20 major processor types. Runs on older hardware. When WINE is installed a lot of Windows software will run OK on it. Does not cost anything. Open Source. Fast security fixes. Most secure of the "big three" due to it's superior security design (for example sudo is a genius but simple idea). Cons: Some odd hardware (particularly modems) can be finiky. Some distros are harder to use (but Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Linspire/Lindows (closed source), Suse, DSL, and Ark, and a few others are not all that tough. Ubuntu/Kubuntu in particular. They are as easy to use as Mac or Windows. The biggest problem though is that nobody sells computers that don't have Windows or Mac preinstalled.

Mac: Pros: Beter security than Windows due to it's base on the powerful BSD platform. Excells at image editing. Easiest to use. Pritty interface. OpenDarwin provides an execlent platform for programers to write Mac code. Cons: Running Windows programs on a PowerPC based Mac using DarWine is slow because an emulator (I believe QEMU is used) must be ran. Last I checked, you need to use Mac's emulator to run DarWine and then use DarWine's emulator if you have an intel based one, but that should soon change. Another con is mac in many ways is just a pritty version of BSD. PCBSD will give you a similar experience for free.

I would say you should only upgrade with your new box. If your a gamer, Windows is cheaper than Cedega for Linux. If your an artist, Mac does that well. If you want to use a used computer, run a server, or have the most room to grow, or you want to save money, linux will treat you right.

Also, for those who think linux is hard to use. Learn Ubuntu. If you want a prittyer version, try Kubuntu. It is easy to use with a GUI that tops Mac.

I am going to try and comunicate all here, what consumers should understand when purchasing a product.Trust your own intelligence and dont follow product propaganda[marketing].When I purchased my macintosh[Emac OSX 10.3]it cost me 800$. 2 years ago I bought a open box HPlaptop/celeron and after a week of booting freezing up and only using 1 app at a time @ best 2, I thought I should consider Mac AGAIN!Thats right, I was one of the orig. Imac buyers in 98 [Im laughing now] So back to office max I went and with refund in hand I went to Apple store relizing the EMAC was within 30$.I was again back in Apple's pocket grrrrrrr.I wasnt happy at first thinking what games can i play.that was my only question I could come up,[but I had a PS2 ]with why I shouldnt buy a mac.That was it.I purchaced tht piece of **** lap top on propaganda.Guess what? it was a very faulty product.So trusting my own intelligence and exp with the products available to what i could afford.Emac is now writing this.
I am a simple machinist.I make less than 35k a year and live in an appartment in the ghetto and i own a mac.I am lol because i read "who can afford a Mac" so many times. From ppl whos software purchases, time and liability and experience from a lesser product should hit the oldbrainer with a question>Was it worth it?
With my mac I got a, recording studio ,music software with Inet radio allready programmed,pictures program,DVD, Ive got stuff i never even use,even a few games[BTW I still play Halo online on my mac}The only software ive purchased was Photoshop, the 100$ version and Halo.
In my 2 years Ive had too reboot once.[I kept hitting enter key as fast as i could in chatroom trying to get OSX to crash and this was my test in first week of purchase {BTW IT was IE that crashed}.Im guessing though i didnt actually need to reboot and if I simply walked away for a minute the CPU and ram would of caught up to my reckless attempts.In a week of my HP laptop use I had over 10 and prob closer to 20 reboots.
Well this what i wanted to share with you ppl.I actually dont like Jobbs and Apples arrogance and the elitist rep they have,also the ppl who use them.I do however LOVE my eMac. PS since my purchase ,out of the 3 friends at work who sware about windows.1 desktop not usable and he doesnt know why>HP, another desktop burned up graphics card>Dell , and the last I witnessed ,his browser didnt browse it simply was a pop upserver and after about 20 clicks he could read a webb page.LOL now that S*** is funny!!!!!!!!!
Trust your own intelligence ppl .2 years later you wont regret it.

People! Vista won't be a nightmare. While it is slow right now, it'll get faster when the code gets optimized. (Build 5342 shows some signs of life with SOME of the optimization.) There are people right now in beta running Vista with 256MB of RAM, (with some features disabled) and they say that it sometimes runs better than it does with a system with 1GB of RAM! There are people using Vista with Pentium IIIs just fine. AMD Athlon XP's work fine with Vista, and they'll even work with Aero Glass provided you have a DX9 video card. All you need to get Aero Glass is an NVIDIA FX5200, which you can pick up for less than $50. Most people can also get Aero Glass up and running fine with even AGP 4x. While Vista might be a little demanding now, probably by the end of next year, any computer can handle it with ease. An AMD Athlon XP 2000+ or P4 2GHz is under the '2' category in Vista. (Of 5 categories.) To get a '3', you need an Athlon XP 2800+ (P4 2.8GHz). To get be under the '5' category, you need a very recent high-end system.

More on the categories. (Please note these were on Microsoft's website and yes, they actually mention Athlon XP's.) This is approximately how it was:
Category 1 is the bare minimum you'll need for Vista.
-1-
256MB of RAM
(Probably a PIII CPU or higher)
8GB of HD space
Onboard sound
DVD drive
-2-
512MB of RAM
P4 2GHz or AMD Athlon XP 2000+
Onboard sound
Video card with 32MB of video RAM
DVD drive & CD-RW drive
-3-
DX9 video card with 64MB of video RAM (Discrete or integrated)
512MB of RAM
P4 2.8GHz or AMD Athlon XP 2800+
DVD-RW drive
24-bit sound card
-4-
P4 3GHz or AMD Athlon XP 3200+ (I'm guessing here)
512MB of RAM
DX9 card with 128MB of video RAM
-5-
Athlon 64 4400+ or the like
1GB of RAM
DX10 support
256MB of video RAM

New windows = more power being sucked from my CPU to power sum useless features and less freedom. Billiam Gates is an Ass

Copy Cat ... sure Gates-Copy-Works.Inc has been in the copy business since trying to copy the Lisa/Mac GUI.

Give me a break everybody who is even debating this. There is a right tool for a certain type of job. Both a Mac and PC's are great. I use both, and like them both. However I dont think much of the new Mac Laptops with the Intel Chip, has alot of compatabilty issues. Look overall productivity goes to a Windows/PC machine. Linux and Unix for Servers. Macs/MacOS for vidio editing. All are good.

BTW, if memory serves me right. I believe that the original interace idea that everybody is modeling off of goes to IBM OS/2. Wich also was a good OS. I used OS/2 Warp in the day, I heard something that IBM was supose to be releasing a new Cyrex chip and a new OS/2. ANybody can confirm that.

I mean,
Can anbody confirm that ?
(its a question)

And Palm OS, rules for handhelds. I like the Windows Mobel 5 also. But Palm is easlier

FOR CRACK HEAD....
how do you tweak the windows? i m a total noob user. i just know how to turn my POS on and surf online or play game or do HW on it.... any clue how or where i can read up to perform the tweaking let me know plz any1 noe where i can learn how to tweak my WINDOWS so my POS PC won't laggggg when i open the web browser and MS WORD and AIM at the same time.....
P4 2.4, 768 RAM.... but it lagggggg like crap soon as i have those 3 up at the same time....

I want to thank the MS/Apple/UNIX/Linux brains for trying to have a good OS discussion but to be honest, I kind like watching monkeys throw poop at each other.

[saracasm]Seriously, can't we just stop the whole OS crap and fight about things that REALLY matter, like why metal is sooooo much better than country music.[/sarcasm]

The only reason microsoft windows is going to be around for a while is because he's got the monopoly on all the pc's comming out preloaded with it. Then you've got average joe user who checks email. uses work/excel (because thats what 'everyone uses') and surfs the net....who wouldnt know one OS from the next (i.e. thinks that Mac OSX is windows XP in a different color).

Put those together and Micrsoft windows will be around for a while......just think all those nonApple consumer computers come loaded with M$ softeware....everyone has Office, IE, Windows, Messengger.....as long as they can go from comp. to comp. with their files....thats all they care about.

APPLE HAS TO MAKE A 'MAC OS X' TO PUT INTO HP'S, DELL'S, COMPAQ'S, ETC., ETC.,.......AND ONLY THEN WILL WINDOWS DIE OFF.