Would You Buy Mac OS X on a Dell?

nah, but I'd def. download and try a free version of OSX on my 2003-era PC, just for kicks.

absolutely - i have never tried it before but have always wanted to - if i liked it AND the software existed to transfer files and docs from apple to msft (work on apple at home, open file at office in msft environment) then i would buy an appl for home and let my kids get one too (they are dying for one since they both have ipods but i have been hesitant becase i want them to learn on the standard ms system)

M$ Office files are transferable between osx amd windows. And so are pff, jpeg, gif, tiff, mp3, mpeg2, wav, wma, etc., etc.

Everyone seems to have missed the obvious here. By sticking to OS X on Mac hardware only it will be Steve Jobs in the drivers seat because it appears there will be no reason why those machines won't be prevented from running windows. So people will have that option of buying computers that run both. It's just that they will be apples, not Dells. I think the cool factor plus security is likely to encourage many to choose that option. Any premium will be justifiable on the basis of quality and security.

(they are dying for one since they both have ipods but i have been hesitant becase i want them to learn on the standard ms system)

Actually for hi end industrial stuff Unix is the standard-which is what Mac OSX is.
Andrew If your kids are so keen to learn on Apple why not get them a Mac mini which is the cheapest Mac for the family so that they can learn and enjoy learning such things as graphics, making movies, mixing music, Excel spread sheets and Word docs which are both compatible with MS. To say that your wanting your kids to learn on MS because it is "The Standard" what for viruses? These days the computing platform is almost irrelevant. For back end servers many companies run Linux as well as Microsoft side by side. For office type stuff most companies have a mainstay of MS for specific office stuff however Linux is making inroads in many corporates due to its lesser cost. Many inhouse marketing departments often use Mac and PC side by side for dealing with graphics files. I personally own a PC but work on a Mac during the day as a graphic designer and I have no problems at all switching between the two systems. The only thing stopping kids from learning computer platforms is their parents mis informed perceptions.

Tony - the word is (and check out Dvorak's latest article at PCmag for more) that Apple will use the BIOS to make the machine "Apple-Only."

You should therefore expect to see BIOS hacks (or somethin' like that) shortly after "OSX for PCs" becomes available.

James - don't nitpick. MS is the standard for normal people in this thing we call THE WORLD, you should visit it sometime.

macs now can mount and write to ntfs or fat32 external/internal media, and all file formats are compatible - if they are standards based even ms office will switch to xml next year). os x has been using xml since day 1. as a consultant, i have discovered over 1100 windows viruses in the past week and have found 3 viruses on macs in the past 15 years - none in the past 4 years - since os x. make up your own mind. btw: nothing is stopping you from running VNC to remotely control one or the other in either direction.

actually, it is unlikely that it will be a simple BIOS hack. macs historically had BOOT ROMS that contained certain aspects of the system burned into ROMS that apple never allowed to be sold without the surrounding computer. while this scheme was indeed hacked on the atari st in the early 80s (both ran on motorolla 6800 chips), this was at a time where single-user, single-task was all that was possible. now with a secure unix environment, firmware security, weekly software updates.... i suspect that it will be a daunting task to maintain a BootROM hack. especially when one can buy a used mac for $100-200 to play with the real thing.

I grew up using macs and used Mac OS X throughout my Computer Science degree. Using Windows is not hard to adjust to, although I miss some of OS X's features. Don't hesitate to buy your kids a Mac.

I dont see why people think MS is the standard its only the most widley used platform because there are more pc manufactures as comapred to apple is the only one that runs osx. people want cheap even if they get 15000 viruses they want the 400 box at walmart that is crap and built with crap parts rather then a true machine that just simply works it doesnt crash and it runs circles around windows. You do know that windows is a mac. IT has been proven in a court of law that windows contains many many lines of code from the early macs. wmp contains code from quiktime. IE is stolen from spyglass browser and pretty much everything else MS makes has some stolen code in it somewhere. ITS A FACT READ IT google it microsoft legal

I think Jobs has shown himself in the past to be a rather hard liner when it comes to keeping Apple products (especially software) Mac exclusive. While there have been a few notable exceptions (i.e. Windows iPods, iTunes for Windows, etc), Apple will most likely continue to use OS X as one of the key marketing tools to draw PC users towards their own hardware. Unless Apple seriously wants to compete in the OS market (which wouldn't be a bad thing) I think they'll hold on to what's really one of their most compelling proprietary products. I would, quite frankly, like to see Final Cut Pro for the Windows platform as viable alternative to Adobe, Pinnacle, and Canopus. I also agree with red hand; Like it or not, MS is the standard OS for consumers and most businesses in this thing we call reality.

Would I EVER buy a dell?

I got burnt so bad with thier Apple II line in the '80's I'll never touch anything that has Apple's name on it. They will drop you like a bad habit.

Sorry to burst your bubble kids, but the MAC OSX do have thier fair share of bugs. This is evident in a corporate network environment, as supposed to just sitting on a home network.

10.4 Tiger which is supposed to be the "super OS" has already crashed on me numerous times.

_mmm

hmmm.... i like the idea of OSX running on a PC. I also like the fact that Mac is considering offering Windows on their computers. I don't think that would be the best idea for Apple. Windows does a good enough job of crashing PCs... I think windows will only screw up what already seems to be a pretty stable hardware/software configuration.

Yes! Especially if I can install it on an existing Dell. And "dual" boot with Windows, Linux, BSD, and OSX

Man, make up your minds! ?tis the CLONES who are currently hogging up the market share for OS ? it is more than apparent that Windows leads the way, whether you like it or not. Windows may not be the best OS but it certainly the most piratably cheap version, and for a guy who bought a copy of Windows Pro for under 3 dollars I couldn?t give a rats arse how many viruses I have to sweep up at then end of the day!

Tell your kids to use keep using the ?standard? OS and give them the rest of what they would save for a new bicycle.! Hell Ya!

heck yes i would!

as an XP and OSX user i have gotta say that XP is the better choice. It used to be that people purchased macs for graphics and security, now most companies use PC for graphics. I look at it this way, there is nothing you can do on a MAC that you cant do on Windows and trillions of things you can do on PC that you can't do on MAC. There is NO risk of viruses on PC either, just keep you AV up to date and your fine.

OSX looks pretty but it is not as versatile as Windows and with Longhorn coming out (beta tester) MAC better make plans because they are going to start sinking.

OSX is prettier but you can make windows look that pretty very easily. plus Longhorn looks much better than MAC.

I contradict the fact that havin OS/X on a Dell would make it harder to sell mac's. If you think about the angle of compatiblity, the more companies sell their PC's with OS/X software the more popular you make OS/X software including aftermaket hardware and software for the rest of the world. If this would happen, microsoft could not control the market as it is doing today, and this could probably bring better software from microsoft without so many holes and cracks. Apple computers would find a bigger market to sell it's "more upscale Macs" and still sell more than it is now because there would be more demand since more people would probably use them. I don't see a problem with this, because it would be profitable for the users don't you think?

MS OS's are the defacto standard. Everyone complains about bugginess and virus threats, etc...but the true issue isn't that these alternate os's, browsers, etc... are more secure or better, but just less utilized. (Look at the problems springing up in the firefox camp now that it is gaining more wide use.) On a PC running XP, you have billions of possible software package combinations to contend with......of course certain combinations are going to cause problems, but at least these different types software are available for your platform and most work fairly well. Usually on a mac, you have only 1 or 2 choices. More power to Mac on moving to intel, and I hope they reinvent their business by making their wonderful software work on any intel pc.

MacOS on x86 would provide another toy to play with, but not really be useful in any sense. To get a real job done, use Windows. To tinker, hack around in linux. If I really want Mac-like eye candy, it is easy enough to add to either of the other OS platforms.

Dream on Dell.

You're stuck selling a box based on Windows because you don't want to invest in anything other than 'supply chain' R&D.

Basically, you made your bed, now lie in it. You're stuck with Windows and that's all there is to it. They sell something which is buggy and you are forced to accept it.

Apple stuck to their guns, developed OS X and that is the difference between them and you. That is NOT going to change.

You wouldn't even pay to train your staff to sell a Linux system, which is FREE.

What makes you think OS X would make you money and earn next nothing for Apple while

If you want OS X, buy a Mac.

To address the virus/spyware concerns: I've been running on Windows since Win3.1 and have *never* had a virus.

Doesn't take a genious, just follow a few simple guidelines:
- Keep your system patched
- Don't install untrusted software, especially cute add-ins/utilities for your web browser and desktop
- Don't open untrusted documents/e-mails, including ones from friends who may not be as careful as you
- Use caution when browsing the web and watch where you click: The button that says Close doesn't always do what it says
- Only log in with admin priv when you need to
- Always use a firewall and don't poke holes in it

All this is true regardless of what OS you run. Sure, Windows is a bigger target, since it holds such a huge market share. But, to a large extent, malware relies on the user to dig their own grave. Smart computing is your best defense.

All I can say is: Bring Amiga back! That was a real computer, if there ever was one. Thew whole OS in less than a megabite. Totally multitasking. From time to time I dust one of them off, just for the kicks of watching it run Quark and else, with resources that are unthinkable on my OSXs and XPs machines.

Hi Red Hand,
As I said I use a PC at home so I do use the so called "Standard" I prefer to use the Mac at work which is perfectly compatible with MS. I use MS office for Mac to view my Excel spread sheet schedules which are sent to me from a PC with no problems at all. The point I was politley trying to make to Andrew was that he should happily encourage his kids to use a Mac if that is what they are keen to learn on rather than holding them back and makeing them use a PC. If your kid is enjoying learning on a Mac dont hold them back . Kids also pick up and learn much faster and easier than adults as we tend to get stuck in our ways and are too worried about breaking things so we dont always try learing new things.

Here's my thoughts: Steve Job's #1 reason for changing to Intel has nothing to do with their hardware, but rather gain a large share of the OS business
Why: 1) Bigger profit margins in software than hardware
2) Jobs never happy with how he feels Microsoft made cheap copies of Apple's OS ideas & made more $ than him, selling it
3) Jobs wants to beat Microsoft & Gates & sees now is time to make his move
a) Apple is riding high in positive publicity/feelings/reviews about company & new OS
b) Apple making money with iPods & iMacs
c) Microsoft is venerable constant security issues, lawsuits, negative public image, & delays with new OS
4) Apple will keep saying their Intel OS will only work on Apple hardware until time is right & then will announce it works on any Intel computer. Will lead to millions of Apple's OS being sold at expense of Microsoft. iMacs will still cost more than others, but consumers get a computer that looks better, & works better/easier

time will tell...

Guys, I'm a student and I've been working with macs for seven years now. In 2000, I got a red iMac, but it crashed about 10x more than my older pc, which was actually faster than it. I just don't understand how people think mac doesn't crash more. With PC's, you can press CtrlAlt Delete, but with macs, even the mouse and keyboard stop responding. Also, the mouse only has one button, so I lose productivity and time. I can't play games without a scroll wheel. I also find it daunting that there are so few software that is compatible with Macs.

IBM not delivering 3GHz might have something to do with it.....

Hi Joe, Was your Red iMac a G3 running OS9 (which doesnt have the protected memory that OSX has?

Obviously those who have problems with Macs (crashing and all) have not used OSX. My Mac never "crashes." I may have an app crash occasionally but that only takes me back to the Finder with OSX still up and running. CMD/ALT/ESC allows you to force quit an app. I have a Logitech 2 button mouse with scroll wheel. And I have yet to find an application that I might need unavailable for the Mac.

For me it is not a matter of saving a few bucks on a PC. I work on Windows XP and 2000 now and again but prefer my OSXed G5. I just don't see the argument for one over the other. It just boils down to personal choice.

OSX and Windows on the same box? Great! Pop likes windows and kid likes OSX.

I have used nothing but Macs since 1990. Windows cannot open half of macs software, but Mac can open all of windows and its own os. I have been on X since its intro and find its capabilities and graphic/sound quality second to none. Have a laptop Toshiba with XP and it is cumbersome at best. Ask a graphic artist or a teacher...You cannot beat a Mac.

I have used nothing but Macs since 1990. Windows cannot open half of macs software, but Mac can open all of windows and its own os. I have been on X since its intro and find its capabilities and graphic/sound quality second to none. Have a laptop Toshiba with XP and it is cumbersome at best. Ask a graphic artist or a teacher...You cannot beat a Mac. I would buy a Dell with osx in a minute.

Being a graphic artist or a teacher has nothing to do with it. PCs can out preform macs in graphics and rendering. Mac graphics were superiour years ago, but not any more. The only reason graphic artists or teachers still use apples is because they are used to it and fear a change for the better. Get over it.

Oh, and I forgot: do Macs have anything like a taskbar or tabs so I can switch easily from application to application? At school, now I use OS X, and theres like this dock thing at the bottom, but it wastes time because I have to click the mouse on it and hold it for like two seconds for the menu to pop up. I find it difficult to make additional windows for an application like Internet Explorer. In pc's I can just type Ctrl N, or Ctrl T to make a new tab in Mozilla.

do Macs have anything like a taskbar or tabs so I can switch easily from application to application?

Cmd + Tab shows you what apps your currently running .
You can adjust your dock preferences in the Apple menu at the top left of your screen. You can have it set to be positioned at either side of the monitor or at the bottom depending on what you prefer. It can also be set to remain visible at all times or to dissappear. The icons can be set to magnify from a reduced Dock when you mouse over them. I have my dock set to appear when I mouse over it. You should see a small black triangle under each app that is open. To open other apps just click on the relevant icon once and it will open.
You dont need to hold the mouse down for any menu.

Firefox for Apple is the same as Firefox for PC you just use Cmd + Tab(Apple) instead of Control + Tab (PC)

Regarding apps on the dock, if you go to your Applications folder in your Mac Hard drive and drag the icons of the Apps that you use ie Word, Excel, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, InDesign, Powerpoint etc into the Dock they will be readily accessible from the Dock with a SINGLE mouse click. To remove the icons from the Dock just click on the icon drag it off the dock and release.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75459
A list of Apple keyboard shortcuts

Some helpful info regarding the Dock in OSX
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=VoiceOver/1.0/en/mh2041.html

"When you first install Windows Desktop Search, it must index all the relevant files on your hard disk. In my tests, this was a painfully slow process. It took more than a day to complete on each of my test machines -- even though I deliberately did little work on the two PCs during this period because the indexing pauses when you're using the computer."

The above quote is from this link by Walt Mossberg of the Wall Street Journal
http://ptech.wsj.com/archive/ptech-20050616.html

Tiger takes about 45minutes to an hour to do the same thing on installation on a Mac.

No I would not buy OSX on a Dell -- because I wouldn't buy a Dell, period. They're crappy machines and they break prematurely (e.g. the keyboard on laptops!) -- though, from Dell's point of view, probably right on schedule (planned obselescence). A cynical company whose only vision is of cranking out yet more boring boxes.

Oh come on, "cr*p" is a fine Anglo-Saxon word, part of English for thousands of years. This is out-of-control censorship.

no i will buy a mac with OS X installed.. why do i want a black box with no design or style?

Theese eez seeley!

The question is MOOT; it ain't happening!

I have a dell laptop that I paid $1200 for and a mac laptop I paid $2400 for. The dell smokes(runs circles around) the mac with osx.
It's not that i don't appreciate osx or the nice looking titanium case, but the mac just doesn't give the bang for the buck.
I'd love to have osx on my dell, but if osx was on so many more machines than it is now, the virus writers would go after it too.

lol @ jason: "i dont see why people think MS is the standard its only the most widley used platform"!

Keith Quote"The dell smokes(runs circles around) the mac with osx."

What do you mostly do on your Mac and how much RAM do you have on it?

The worlds best os running on the worlds most generic c****py hardware.

yeah, sign me up for that.

Keith your probably mistakenly comparing the performance of a G4 chip in your 14" iBook(going on your quoted price I am assuming that is what you have) with the Intel or AMD chip in your Dell laptop.

Depending on what your doing the Dell lap top probably is faster regarding the CPU speed considering the G4 chip is about 4+ years old now.

The issue with the two operating systems is what the OS itself will actually do and what OSX comes bundled with compared to XP and what viruses (70,000+ and counting) aftect XP that DONT affect OSX (zilch, zip, nada, none- 3 or 4 affected OS9). This means you dont need additional virus protection for OSX that you need for XP.

1GB of RAM will cure most lack of speed issues with Apple.

OS X (10.3 and on) is better than anything Microsoft has ever made or ever will make.

Using Windose is like working in a cubicle with a buzzing florescent light over your head on a desk that rocks because one leg is shorter than the other three. Not only that but there`s a big ceramic ashtray of a bear stuck in the middle desk and it can`t be removed.

OS X is solid.

I have had the experience of working with Apple & PC's since 1979. I abandoned Apple when the Lisa computers came out. Back then it was an easy choice. Who can afford a $12,000 computer?

I lived through DOS on PC's, all versions of Windows, and I kept a close eye on Apple, and the NeXtstep computers that Jobs did after he left Apple. When OSX came out, I bought a desktop to run video apps only. As the virus and browser situation got worse on my Windows PC I began testing my Windows Apps compatibility on the 3 year old Apple. After 6 months of being PC free I announced to all of my clients, friends, and family that I was switching, and they need no worry because I had been exchanging files and sending files to them from the Apple already.

I still use my Windows PC for various projects or as a second computer for my assistant, but i NEVER hook it up to the internet. If I need to download a driver or program to the PC, I download it on the Apple and transfer it to the PC using either a direct connection over ethernet cable or using a USB based jumpdrive or a firewire compatible external hard drive. I do like Quicken for PC much better than the Apple version so I purchased a copy of Virtual PC and installed my old windows OS so now I have ALL versions of Windows 3.1, 95, 98, 98SE, 2000, XP home, XP Pro running on my Apple using Virtual PC. I have even run DOS and Linux on the Apple without any problems or viruses. Speed is an issue with Virtual PC and I often times find that for a particular application like Quicken, all I need is the Windows 98SE version to accomplish my task. My point is that there is no reason NOT to switch. OSX is all around better, safer, and if you calculate all of the maintenance time you spend on a PC, it is also less time consuming. Switch slowly and understand what you are doing at each step. And buy the kids any computer before they lose step with their fellow students.

The OSX running on Intel is interesting, but it sounds like they made OSX compatible for any processor (within reason) so I do not see a problem. In fact, the keynote speech that Jobs gave a few days ago is worth the time to watch and can be downloaded. It impressed me, and I am very skeptical. Good luck.

I thought this was supposed to be a would you buy it survey, not a debate...

Long answer short: Absolutely, I'd buy OS X on a Dell. I'll buy it on an x86 based Apple machine if that's the only place I can get it, but after 16 years in IT and having bought a Mac Mini when released to learn something about OS X, I've completely switched and can't see going back to Windows.

james you are correct in some of your points. Both the dell and the mac are the same age, about three years old. the clock speed on the dell is 2.66ghz, the mac 1ghz. but, that is my point. with mac, one pays alot more money, but really doesn't get any more practicle utility. MACS COST TOO MUCH. I'm glad to see an attempt being made to lower their price. Mac did this to itself by being "exclusive". If mac wants more market share, the move to lower prices is smart.
As I said, I like the mac and osx(os9 is pitiful)and I'd love to have osx on my intel pc--it would be the best of both worlds. speed and elegance at a price that is resonable.

james you are correct in some of your points. Both the dell and the mac are the same age, about three years old. the clock speed on the dell is 2.66ghz, the mac 1ghz with 512mb ram. but, that is my point. with mac, one pays alot more money, but really doesn't get any more practicle utility. MACS COST TOO MUCH. I'm glad to see an attempt being made to lower their price. Mac did this to itself by being "exclusive". If mac wants more market share, the move to lower prices is smart.
As I said, I like the mac and osx(os9 is pitiful)and I'd love to have osx on my intel pc--it would be the best of both worlds. speed and elegance at a price that is resonable.

I wouldn't buy a Dell running OS X. Because I prefer laptops to desktops, and regardless of what OS they're running, Apple's laptops are just plain built better than Dell's. I don't think Dell is capable of building a laptop as sleek, stylish, sturdy and reliable. And I'm not some brainwashed from birth Mac zealot. I was a PC user for years before I switched to Macs. Every Dell laptop I used at work was clunky and fragile and felt like it could break at any minute (and several did). My ibook on the other hand could take a dropping or two (oops) and I've never had a problem with my 12" powerbook. So Dell can sell laptops running OS X if they want, but I'll stuck with Apple's laptops. They just work better.

I was a die hard Wintel user and I resisted when I was told I needed a Mac for school - graphic design - I've been using PC's since the 8088 proc and have built too many machines to count - I had also followed Apple's miserable career and I pulled out ever Apple bashing comment in the book... then it happened - the change, it had penatrated my soul, took over my being - it will change you too, don't resist - you will love the Mac, in time. No seriously, with OSX and the new hardware and larger memory sizes, it's a rock solid system - the new Mac's are nothing like the days gone by. Seriously, don't bash it till you try it for a few months. But you have to have a job to do, not just screw around on it and still shit and watch porn - actually have a job to do and use the computer as an important tool.

HOLY CRAP YES AN OS X DELL WOULD CRUSH M$ AND SEND THEM TO THE LAND OF FORGOTTEN OPERATING SYSTENS

'course, then OS X would have the same problems as windows, but........ who cares right now?????

OS/X on Dell? Sure why not... I would really like to go back to Apple (the company and products just feel better)

Although Apple will try to lock OS/X on its proprietary hardware (BIOS has been mentioned), having Intel inside and the capability of running Windows will probably not stop some incredibly fast hacks allowing to run OS/X on any Intel machine... I don't really think that is Apple's ulterior strategy, but the current synergy of iPod, iTunes, i-whatever, is bound to create some waves...
Dell? They already offer Linux (probably just to push Microsoft license prices down) but I ignore how big that line is.

OS X should stay on Macs, where it belongs. Macs also cost a lot more than IBM-clone PCs, even though they often do not perform as well. It would probably just make Dell PCs cost more. Apple also doesn't want to let Dell sell computers with its OS so far.

"Mac OS X will only run on Macs. Apple has no plans to sell Mac OS X software to run on PCs" Notice that the Apple spokesperson said OS X, not Leopard or any future Mac OS. Apple is trying to expand, and they made the deal with Intel to hurt Dell, so they wouldn't want to sell anything to them.

I would probably pay a $129 premium for a dual-booting machine just to try out Mac OS X. It would be nice if Dell would also make a machine that could boot Linux, Windows XP, and Mac OS X too.

If Mac OS X ran on a Dell I would buy it in a heartbeart!!! With a Mac you don't have to worry so much about viruses because Apple is not as popular or easy to write a virus for!! Having a Mac PC would boost Apple sales would sky rocket!!!

Hey, how about GARBAGE = CRAP, CRAPPY. At least as far as Dell is involved. Oops, sorry for hurt feelings. NOT !!!!!!

Cheers Keith,
I dont think Apple is too greatly concerned about the great "Market Share" ideal. They are a $30 Billion Dollar company with no debt. I do agree with you about Apple (hardware) being expensive (especially here in NZ) compared to "boring ugly beige box PCs" but I guess that is what you get when you dont put any effort or attention towards the care or design of a product you sell (PC Box Manufacturers).
I use a G5 Dual 1.8GHz Power Mac at work with 1GB RAM and I can tell you that it is plenty fast enough for the Print production work I do and MUCH faster than the old 450MHz G4 Power Macs that we also use for the same work.

I recently read an interesting comparisson of Intel chip CPU speed VS IBM PPC which went something like this; The P4 Intel chip is a bit like a Suburban soccer mums 8 seater people mover placed next to the IBM 42 seater school bus. The soccer mums car can "whizz" 8 kids through traffic to school much faster than the IBM bus but has to make 5.2 round trips to move 42 people. The IBM bus is a bit slower but does 42 people (instruction sets) in the one cycle. Although in the case of the G4 chip that would be a Motorola school bus ;)

Now tell me which is the "faster" mode? I think the best answer to that is that we choose the platform that best suits our needs.

On another note- changing the chip will not affect the Operating System with regards to viruses. The system is code the chip is a sliver of silicon. Viruses are instruction sets written in code and designed to affect Microsoft's code because it is easier to infect. You try writing a virus instruction set that can install itself by entering the users Admin password before installing itelf.... I am not saying it can't be done, it is just not as fast as writting one that is SELF INSTALLING without needing the users permission

Incidently, saying that Macs are more expensive that equivalent PCs is not entirely true. A tech minded person may be able to build a much cheaper PC box but your average person buying a PC off the shop floor will actually being paying the same or more for a PC as they would for the equivalent Mac buy the time you factor in the necessary Antivirus proctection for PCs that you dont need on a new Mac.
In the sub $800 dollar bracket we have the eMac @ $799 vs the Dell Dimension 3000 for $800
Please note these are old prices and Dell does a lot of discounts. Unfortunatley the web admin on this site doesn's seem to let me post links but system shootouts has all the info.

I would buy one in an instant for a lower price. I like many are tired of crashes and invations.
Even at a higher price I will make mac my next pc/lap top.

Well the Mac mini is $499 and virus free, just plug in your existing keyboard and monitor.

The MAC osX is a super performer for personal usage; however in the PC workplace there are some limitations to having a osX. If the workplace is set up using Windows and its intranet sites do not support Safari or netscape, just IE. IE does not update the Mac IE:mac anymore and therefore you cannot get onto it. I also cannot download some files attached from a PC email.
Dell should stick to Windows os.

Hi Snowbird6061,
you can use Firefox for Mac (I do) at work. About the only site that wont accept it is Microsoft updates-but that is Microsofts fault and not Firefox. I havent found too many banks that wont accept Firefox, if they dont it is because of sloppy coding on their websites.

I do agree with you regarding some file extensions emailed between Mac and PC having difficulty. That is something that I experience at work being that most of the clients we deal with use PCs and we pretty much use Apple at work(design, pre-press and print production)
How ever there are usually ways around this.
With regards to Mac-Windows filesharing over a network with OSX and Samba/TCP/IP and other various Windows file sharing protocols currently being supported by OSX 10.3 and 10.4 (Panther and Tiger) and Xserve being a perfectly viable cross platorm server for Linux/Mac/Windows file compatibility issues are not really a big deal. Just check the file extension and file format that the sender is using.

I actually get my excel work schedules emailed to my Mac from a clients PC and open them from Microsoft Outlook Express 2001 (Running in Classic). I just drag the Excel file on to my desk top and then go into Excel for Mac and navigate to the file on my desk top and open it.

Kids don't like Apple Computers... All through elementary school I hated using them... I enjoy PC's and all of my peers do to... The only reason schools have MACs and OSX are because it is cheaper (they buy at volume)... This is a scheme Apple uses to "addict" kids to MAC's and their other crap** devices... How sneaky? Imagine if our PC Lab (of the Junior Highschool) got taken over by Dell OSX's.
HORRIBLE

Look poseurs, Windows = spyware OSX = none. Read on believe me. I am not privy to either operating system in fact I like my windows PC just as much as the MAC that I am currently going to upgrade to OSX. However apple should have done this along time ago. OSX is a great operating system I prefer windows and it's only cause of one thing my right mouse clicks. and that's coming from some one whom builds, has, and is currently using a PC. let's face it though if it came right down to it apple's market share would double instantly if more people where using OSX and not getting spyware from lime wire, kaaza or other file sharing programs. That would be incentive for us PC users. I do agree that it takes a person alot to make sure their pc is tip top shape.

1000s of apps and games for Windows, and, um, a couple dozen for Mac.

I guess if you're one of those communist types who don't believe in the free market, Mac is comforting?

Red Hand check out version tracker for all your Mac OS AND PC shareware and free ware needs

To run both OSX and Windows, the logical choice would be to buy the MAC.

1. OSX will run normally on the MAC box
2. Windows will run better on the MAC box because there is only one target system. Windows will have to have support to run on the MAC hardware, but it will be tweaked and retweaked until it just runs better on the MAC, becaue their is a target. Currently, Windows box makers have to twiddle to get Windows to work with their hardware and drivers. There are no targets, just compromises for todays batch of hardware purchases. Tomorrow they start all over again. Software developers won't have to work as hard either. The MAC will be a known target. The best PC will end up being a MAC. And if that upsets Bill's view of the world, imagine how he will feel when MacWindows comes out. MacWindows will be the OSX equivalent of OSX written by Apple to run Window Apps without Windows. In other words, a strong, solid, stable OS that works. Not to worry for Bill, he still makes a nice office suite.

Chris, a two button mouse also works on a Mac. I and a Mac/PC person- Mac at work with a one button mouse which I prefer (personal preference only) and a PC here at home with a "2 button" mouse drop down menu etc. Lots of the guys and girls I work with actually PREFER to use a 2 Button mouse on their Mac. We mostly use G4 Power Macs, I am on a G5 Power Mac and we are all on Panther 10.3 . Virtually ALL of our clients use PCs including a lot of the print house we send work to.

Star Trek: Apple's First Mac OS on Intel Project

Tom Hormby
2005.06.13

The first Apple proposal to move the Macintosh to Intel hardware did not begin with Mac OS X. It began in 1985, shortly after Steve Jobs' departure from Apple. The project was quickly nixed by Apple's management, but it would be revived several years later in a joint effort by Novell and Apple to port the Mac OS to the x86 processor.

Microsoft released Windows 3.1 in 1992, and it quickly became the best selling program in the industry. Both Novell and Apple were threatened by the new operating system. Novell feared that the new version of Windows (and especially the pending release of Windows NT) would interfere with its NetWare product, which held a near monopoly in PC networks.

Intel 486 SXApple was equally threatened. Windows was not as easy to use, but Windows PCs cost less than Macs, and Windows could run standard DOS apps without add-on cards or emulation.

Novell began work modernizing Digital Research's GEM, best known as the graphical environment used on the Atari ST, and turning it into a competitor to Windows. The legal department at Novell got the jitters over the project and had it canceled, fearing that an enhanced GEM would attract a lawsuit from Apple.

Star Trek's EnterpriseDarrell Miller, then Vice President of marketing at Novell, made a proposal to Apple CEO John Sculley about porting the Mac OS to Intel hardware. Sculley was thrilled by the offer - he wanted Apple to move away from the expensive hardware business and turn it into a software provider.

Intel's Andy GroveThe project to bring the Mac OS to the Intel 486 began on Valentine's Day in 1992 and was named "Star Trek". The project was blessed by Intel's CEO Andy Grove, who feared Microsoft's power in the PC market.

Apple's leadership gave a deadline of October 31 (Halloween) for creating a working prototype of Star Trek. The group set to work porting the Mac OS to Intel processors.

The task was a tedious one. Much of the software was written in assembly code to make the computer faster and use less disk space. All of this code had to be totally rewritten for the 486. Other parts of the operating system were easier - most of the interface elements had been written in Pascal and only required a few modifications.

There were several other technical hurdles to overcome in porting the Mac OS to Intel processors. The software relied heavily on the ROMs in Macs, which stored much of the operating system and dictated how many GUI features behaved. It would be too expensive to create new ROMs for PC users, so the group implemented the ROMs in software, loading them during startup. (This feature would not be incorporated into Macs until 1998 with the introduction of the iMac.)

The group missed their deadline by a month and had a functional demo ready by December 1, 1992. Apple executives were amazed to see the Finder run on an ordinary PC. The engineers did more than that - QuickDraw GX and QuickTime were also ported to the x86.

With the first goal of the project completed, the engineers took a vacation in Mexico, and the management at Apple and Novell began to decide how to complete the project.

It's TrueUnfortunately, John Sculley's reign at Apple came to an end in the middle of the Star Trek project. The new CEO, Michael Spindler, had little interest in porting the Mac OS to the x86 and devoted most of Apple's resources to preparing System 7 for the PowerPC.

The Star Trek project was canceled, and the Mac OS would not run natively on Intel until after Apple acquired NeXT in 1996, which already had an x86-base operating system, NeXTstep.

In June 2005, Steve Jobs announced that Apple had been concurrently developing OS X on Intel and PowerPC processors for five years - and that future Macs would be based on Intel processors and future versions of Mac OS X would run on Apple's forthcoming Intel-based hardware

I think it's funny how whenever we want to reference a computer that isn't a Mac we call it a "Dell".

That would be the "Mind Share" factor! The thing that big companies strive for.

MP3 players are refered to as iPods or iPod like and music tracks downloaded from the web are referred to as MP3 files even though the bulk of files ripped on Windows by default are WMA not MP3. Generally files ripped on Winamp would be MP3 ( I think) Windows Media Player did not include the MP3 format until Media Player 10 if my memory serves me correctly.

In our local university, the campus is 50% Mac and 50% Wintel. And these machines are both used pretty equally. The university staff includes 12 PC techs, but only 1 Mac tech. The PC techs are always busy...

No, I would continue using Debian based Linux.
However, I would recommend a Mac over Microsoft to people willing to pay for a computer to be easier to use and have less of the bugs like viruses and trojans. The more stable kernel and Unix underpinnings also make it desirable.

Plus = Small learning curve and relatively safe and stable OS
Minus = Cost of OS and other proprietary software

Personally, I am waiting for my 15 inch Powerbook with a Dual core Pentium-M chip. I own both Apples and Dells, and they both do what I want them to do. I am thankful that we still have choice in the OS market, and hope we do for some time to come.

no question about it - I would grab the first chance to own a PC with MAC OS X... its like a dream come true

I would definitely get an x86 with OSX just because I love OSX. I use GNU/Linux (Gentoo) and I can't stand people calling Windows "Standard". People saying "Macs dont run enough software" are completely wrong. Just about all the software that runs on Linux will run on a Mac (OSX), since it is built upon a unix kernel (Named Darwin). I've never had any problems using file formats from Windows, since you can find support for them on Linux (and therefore most likely OSX too) via google.

What is this crap about "the free market"!?!?! Windows is by no means "free"! Look into Linux, the amout of software avaliable is amazing! With Mac, you should be able to emulate/virtualize a Windows system so you can run that "necessary software" anyways.

Simply put, I don't like Dell (I have a dell box running windows that crashes about once every few minutes), so I doubt I'll buy a Dell with Mac OSX, but the idea definitely is nice. The other problem is that it'll probably never happen, since Mac makes most of their money off of the hardware they sell.

Yes I would buy a Dell system with OSX on it but I would be more inclined to purchase a system from Dell if I could opt out of Windows and OSX and go straight to a linux distro without paying for an OS.

Funny how people have systems which crash all the time while I have 10 Dell systems which run 11.5 hours a day and I have had VERY FEW system issues. Sounds like an E.S.O. problem (Equipment is Superior to Operator)

Actually, any gains you'd make from changing from MS to OSX would evaporate as soon as OSX got about 10%> market share, as the virus writers would turn their guns on them. Look at firefox and see what I mean. I believe all the c*** about the UNIX kernel being more secure is just a myth, if not why would firefox start suffering like this? Still firefox is superior but... in the same way OSX will gain market share upto 10% then stagnate as they begin to suffer. The only gainers will be the AV companies

Cris, I like to think of it as an operator head-space and timing issue. BTW I just checked the "most affordable" Mac, the mini and discovered that if I want 1 Gb of memory or an 80 G harddrive it must be installed at the factory. Making it more expensive to cover the cost of labor and parts. WHY??? I have been doing my own upgrades to both for years and resent having to pay the factory to do it.

posted by go :
"In our local university, the campus is 50% Mac and 50% Wintel. And these machines are both used pretty equally. The university staff includes 12 PC techs, but only 1 Mac tech. The PC techs are always busy..."
In our school board, we have the same setup as you, the difference is that PC techs do the work that Mac tech can't do!

Red Hand said,
"I guess if you're one of those communist types who don't believe in the free market, Mac is comforting?"

Hold on here... Buying a computer today is essentially a 1 choice deal (Windoze) for those who can`t be bothered to actually try the far superior product - OS X.

One choice for consumers. Gee that`s kind of like living in East Germany and having no other choice of automobile but the Trabant!

Great if you you`re into pushing your car home on a regular basis.

Get your logic straight.

Windows is the OS Yugo of our time.

OSX, linux, Firfox are only starting to show us the cracks in the windows foundation

AND...

Why are Mac people always communists and/or gay?

I like money and women as much the next guy.

OSX on a Dell...

It has to be 2/3 the cost of a Mac or less or esle it won`t sell.

You have to remember folks the code they use in OS X is very hard to crack compaired to Winblows, thus makes Macs safer from viruses! do your re-search :-P I agree with everyone that says OS X is more stable, no back doors to sneek in. Windows users attention!! your buying from a guy (billy Gates) that was once part of the Apple team then he back stabed Job's and took his ideas, your using a Mac.. Open your eyes its the truth.

was a diehard PC user until i met a good friend -

it was Final Cut Pro and the other Pro apps. Similarly priced PC equivlents do not compare to these tools (totally by my preferance anyway). I bought an iMac in 2001 to use the software I fell in love with (saved me time by being stable and implementing efficient systems to stay organized and whatnot) and take those many hours back that dealing with inconsistencies brought to me. I have since moved to a powerbook and now a dual G5 system and I cannot begin to explain how pleased i am.

In my opinion, by saving me time and headaches, the expense was worth it - I can rake in more jobs because of this.

For those attacking OSX, you need to sit with it for a month to even begin to understand how POWERUSER the system actually is. Once you learn to use your keyboard, you'd be shock at how well the multitasking aspect of the system is so streamlined. oh, and get a 2 button mouse.

OSX on dell? If i wanted my hard drive to catch on fire, maybe i'd consider it. I'll stick to Mac hardware.

Mac OS X is popular because its a well supported os with man venders. The fact its Unix based with a fairly (fair to say at this point) stable gui is its best selling point. The hell with apple hardware stevie, take microsoft by the horns and see who wins. Betcha unix comes out on top....
just a cute thought..