Windows XP SP2: Ready or Not?

Then Possibly U should order the CD instead of clogging the networks and telling everyone else to clog the network instead of listening to Microsoft

The whole idea of autoupdate is it prepares the patches big & small on your local host then offers you a choice to install or not. For big popular patches like SP2 with long download times, either u torrent the file or it would seem logical to let autoupdate queue up the patch for your thumbs up or thumbs down.

microsoft should cease and desist!

Lately, I've been installing all of the patches for my Fedora Core 2 (Linux) system, and I'd also point out that I don't have any problems.

While I can understand that Microsoft may be over-burdened with their large user base, I find it very interesting that my free OS seems to do a better job at: (a) more quickly mobilizing patches for serious security flaws; (b) retaining backward compatibility between security updates; and (c) maintaining high up-time standards (i.e., no need to reboot the computer when updating basically any package, except for the kernel).

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not anti-Microsoft -- I'm a software developer, and know full-well the difficulties involved with maintaining big projects. But I can't help but marvel at how well the open source movement and certain other companies (e.g., Apple, as you suggest in your article) seem to be doing, and just how hard a time Microsoft perpetually seems to have.

A big reason for Microsoft's problems is that it is has the most used operating systems. If linux or Apple were then they would have the same problem because there would be that many people trying to exploit the most widely used OS.

People try to make the big guy always look bad, now I am not a microsoft lover, but you have to respect what they bring to the table.

Microsoft (in the PC environment) = IBM (in the mainframe environs) = F.U.D. (fear uncertainty doubt)

{as they wish it to be}

I'm using Linux Fedora Core 2 and i have no problems at all. No virus, no spyware, no nothing. While i hear all kinds of horror stories from my friends who are running Windows and catching all kinds of malware despite running the most updated antivirus apps, i have no such issues whatsoever.

Microsoft = Fear uncertainty doubt, as they wish it to be? Now that's just paranoid. Yes, I'm sure that Microsoft just loves being known as "those guys that make that crap OS", and obviously their long-term goal is to destroy the industry on which they rely. It all makes sense to me now! Oh, and Bush and Kerry are ninja space pirate zombie cyborgs Mormons who want to sell you used vaccuum cleaners.

BTW, this post is sarcastic. Just in case you couldn't tell.

Personally, as a user of SP2. I don't understand what the big hoopla is about. It seems to me, the updates to the system, like the firewall, is just trying to steal business from Kerio and Zone Alarm. The premise behind checking every file u download, is much to do about nothing, and the idea of the checker to see if my virus definitions are upto date, well, they are updated every night. Most of the things that are newly implemented, I already had alternative versons in shareware/freeware, and seems to me that MS just wants a bigger piece of the pie.
The post above that stated that the files should be torrented, was correct. Make everyone share a piece of the load, and you won't mess with the servers. It should come as no surprise that some of the big software companies, are now experimenting with torrenting, maybe MS should also consider doing the same.
As per Linux and Mac OS, yah I would love to be able to run those OS' however, most of the software I run, doesn't run on Linux or Mac.
Want to talk to me about my comment? PM me as wonderbunni -> http://rpg-exploiters.tk

I've had a WinXP machine running for over 6 months now with a DSL connection, no anti-virus, no firewall, and no problems. I run Windows Update every once in a while to keep the latest stuff on my computer and run Spybot Search & Destroy about once a week. I've been using computers since I was 10 (almost 14 years now) and have never had a virus, trojan, or system crash.

I think the main problem is that Windows is more user-friendly than *nix and cheaper than Mac systems. Therefore, less computer-savvy people are using Windows and are more vulnerable to malicious activity.

Next week? I've had a PS2 for over tne years.

Get real and face the real business world. HACKERS WILL ATTACK ONLY THE GIANTS. Linux is so far down their list it makes Apple look like #1.

Get a grip.

No, you don't have to respect what Micro$oft brings to ANY table, and you certainly SHOULDN'T. If you really buy that load of bull coming from the MS PR department, then you deserve what you get. But it's fools like that which make the internet world miserable for the rest of us. Thanks to Microsoft's intentional disregard for all things security, the internet is quickly becoming unusable. Read between the lines, folks. Life is NOT better with the butterfly, but MSN is something that MS can own and profit from, where the public internet is not... When your systems are taken down by hackers, when your system becomes unusably overloaded with spyware and malware, when you have to change your email address time and again to avoid the onslaught of spam, do you blame the real culprit, Microsoft? probably not... And that's why you'll probably turn on auto-update like a good little end user and give MS even more control over the internet, your productivity, and the future economic landscape... Shame on you...

I had Fedora Core 1 and now Suse 9.1 with XP on my computer. I'd say that for a general user (even though I am currently a Computer Science major) I don't see much of a difference between both OSs. People who have problems with XP probably download loads of pirated unclean software.

Your an SP2!

this update is long overdue!

feel free to get in cd, MS says they will even pay for the shipping fee. though we have to wait for sometime.

nice gesture..

I am fairly certain that most of what MS has shoehorned into SP2 can be disregarded as there are 3rd Party software developers with far superior offerings available that should find their way onto computers of those running XP.

All that should really need to be downloaded are the patches for security issues.

Any of the rest - so-called "updates" or "improvements" to Media Player, the tossed together firewall, or any other additions to the bloat that is Windows can and should be totally ignored - it that is, one wants their computer to function with even a modicum of alacrity.

So there should be no problems with downloading those few patches to the holes causing problems with the MS website.

Only go for what is vital to fix the still exisiting failures and leave the rest.

Once there is a full XP-SP2 shrink-wrapped version available though it will make one positive statement: Finally, Windows XP is ready for prime time and the public beta test is neary over.

WonderBunnie has it exactly right - I haven't had any problems with windows OS or viruses for the last two years - since I put ZonAlarm on my machine, stopped my MS apps from calling out, and turned off the auto update. Their problems in getting their improvments out is most likely getting around other's patents - also they must have big problems in figuring out how to hype some of their little changes as being revolutionary. Although Mr. Bill repeates constantly that "Innovation" is what they are up to at MS, they ceased to be an innovative company a long time ago. They are now in the phase of milking their "cash cow" for all they can get before it dies. Both Bill and Ballmer are divesting them selves of MS stock in big chunks.

"Next week? I've had a PS2 for over tne years."

Good one.

"Personally, as a user of SP2"

???????????? what you time travel???????????????

"I think the main problem is that Windows is more user-friendly than *nix and cheaper than Mac systems. Therefore, less computer-savvy people are using Windows and are more vulnerable to malicious activity."

Well, personally for my group I am very good with using computers and I am pro-Microsoft/Windows.
Personally I don't think its more user friendly I just think its better. Personally I hate how Apple computers (not sure if this is different since the old ones) are like a program you cant exit and has one big window you know that bar on top. Plus, Linux is from what I've seen or at least in my area new and minor. Or maybe thats me. And like Wonderbunni said not all software goes on other OS.

Um, there's a world out there beyond the screen, people. I'll never understand why so many people get so uptight ove all things Microsoft. There ARE alternatives, as the detractors love to remind everyone. So if you don't like MS, avoid them and go about your merry way. I love the 'Net, and I even work for a company that develops software that utilizes it, but I sure don't lose sleep over what MS is doing to gain "control over the Internet."

Also, while I don't use MSN software for access, I love it for my kids - the 'parental controls' really do work and I don't know of any alternative that even comes close to "the butterfly" unfortunately.

Now put your PC to sleep and go outside for a breath of fresh air, please!

You all sound like a bunch of pre school children. MS is the evil giant. Whatever. Do you people seriously think that MS intentionally releases products with security flaws? Do you really think they are the only company who has security flaws in their products? You are all ignorant. Their software is the most widely used and theirfore the most widely attacked. If linux had 90% market share and Firefox was the only browser they bundled with it for example you would suddenly find dozens of holes in it because someone would actually care to attack it. And I highly doubt that mozilla has the manpower to roll out security patches as quickly as MS. Don't get me wrong. I am a Debian Linux user and Even my windows boxes run firefox as the default browser but there are many things that my Debian box just can't do. Until linux developers can build in ease of use and software compatibility for the masses or apple ports osX to the x86 platform for better or worse we are stuck with MS. I don't mind. Compared to windows 95 days the speed and stability of my xp boxes is great. It doesn't crash and I have boxes that have been running for years with no reinstall and months on end with no reboot. Stop blaming MS for hackers and virus and trojans and spyware. Blame the programmers that write the code.

And

Geez comments are added Fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also, it's not the giants they attack it's the people like Josh up there who don't take security and people who can't compare and contrast spybot SD and ad-aware or adware and spyware and doesn't know better then to click a link saying "click here now!!!!!!!!!!" And doesn't know why there browser is 1/100 of the speed of originally and why it has to go through www.search200.com to go to their homepage. Which is Microsoft because it is so everything. So I guess it kind of is because it is a giant, but also for more reasons ya know?

oops

I would have to say that Microsoft is not as bad as many make it out to be. WinXP is extremely user friendly which is one reason it appears that Windows systems are always under attack, they are, but part of the problem is users that don't know what they are doing. Linux is an operating system used primarily by very experienced people in general. Linux users in general don't just execute executables unless they know what they are. I don't think the typical linux user will open an e-mail with the subject line "Osama Bin Laden Suicide" download some file onto their computer and open it up to see what it is while the below average Windows user might. And I don't think Macintosh users can point and laugh at Windows saying "hahahahahah windows has so many viruses and so much spywere and our operating system is perfectly secure" I mean the all versions of the Mac OS can have files that display one file extension and appear to be one type of file when they are really another. I mean for the most part you can open a .jpg and you will be ok, unless of course you are using a Mac then you should treat it just as you would a .exe or .zip file.

I use both Windows XP and SuSE 9.1
I don't hate Macintosh computers, or Mac users. Apple has to be commended for paying attention to the details and getting everything right at least as usability goes. Also you can't say the files should be torrented, when you pay for an OS I think you should expect that the company that makes it will be glad to have servers and bandwidth to support your purchase. However I have no problem with torrenting files for things that are free. If its free I am glad to share my bandwidth. And seriously people keep your computer behind a firewall. If you are using a router at your house it probably has one, if not get a software firewall or use the one in XP. People that don't use a firewall are the internet's biggest enemy.

Get back to work, you spoiled technoslaves. If Linux were the market leader, you'd be whining about it. Grow up and be thankful you're not using a slide rule.

QUOTING: "You are all ignorant. Their software is the most widely used and theirfore the most widely attacked. If linux had 90% market share and Firefox was the only browser they bundled with it for example you would suddenly find dozens of holes in it because someone would actually care to attack it"

Then I need You to explain how apache, the most widely used webserver in the planet is way less prone to attack (and be hacked in these attacks) than MS' .. same question goes to the other lost soul that praised MS with the same cliche..

I would drink posion before I would turn on auto update

Just went to the Microsoft web site to turn on auto download for SP2. Turning it on created a sound I never heard before. After that I could never gain control of the computer or the hard drive again. Called IBM tech support and spoke to someone in India who I couldn't understand (she tried) and who was following a script she couldn't understand. Long and the short of it: it crashed my hard drive. IBM tech support confirmed and is sending a new drive. One tech support person there also told me he had just seen something on the web about a problem. Why it happened I do not know. Be careful turning on the auto upgrade and down load for SP2!

Evidently I did drink posion.

Yes, Mac OSX is a beautiful operating system ripped off from 30-year old Berkley Unix and Linux makes a wonderful cheap, reliable server. But you have to blind not to see that Microsoft can afford to buy the best people in the industry to produce the most innovative software the industry has produced over the last five years. Microsoft has done just that.

Your opinion comes across as biased and ignorant, like you should go back to school and learn a bit about computer science.

Michael, one can say the same about bias for your subjective application of the terms 'best' and 'most innovative'.

Your opinion comes across as biased and ignorant, like you should go back to life and learn a bit about it.

Since it was advised to use firefox instead of IE by internets security watchdogs, microsoft has been in a frenzy to patch something that was brought up before xp was even released.

Microsoft can also buy up some extra bandwidth to handle the patches. This isn't a community effort. They are the ones making money off of it.

"I'm cool, I'm so hip, and underground. Down with the system! Microsoft makes money, so they're evil! Not because without them, the computer would not be nearly this far advanced." There's no fame in attacking linux, or max. With a 90% market share, that's where a virus is going to spread. If you attack Mac, your virus/worm will go nowhere fast, and you won't make waves.

Hey, folks. Let's be rational here.

I have worked extensively with all flavors of Windows and with all iterations of Macintosh.

If you want the best computing experience there is, get a Mac. If you want a "computer" that you can buy at Costco or Sam's Club and think that saving $100-$200 upfront is a bargain, then you deserve Windows.

Within a couple of months you will pay the difference and more in lost productivity. You will pay ten times more over time, especially if you have a team of IT guys working night and day to keep Windows going.

I promise you: you will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, regret buying a Macintosh. Further, you will be amazed at how long you put up with third-rate hardware and a buggy, hellacious OS like Windows.

Microsoft is an all-powerful corp-but it does have its flaws. that autoupdate is buggy. very buggy.

VERY buggy.

none of this would have happened if we all used win 95

Next time I have to restore my PC back to factory condition, I will NOT update anything MS & see how it goes from there & I WILL use the FireFox Browser & Thunderbird email software.
But that doesn't mean I WON'T be using antivirus/firewall...b/c I will...I'm NOT that stupid

Have any of you people who are bashing the IMPROVMENTS in SP2 actually downloaded the Bata 2 (RC2) and seen what it does?

I've tried a lot of 3rd party popup stoppers and have never had one do the job that the one that come packed with SP2 does.

And for those who are bashing the security holes in XP atleast MS hasn't released 3 versions of XP and are working on a 4th like MAC has with OSx

There is NO 100% secure code that any human could ever write, so like a lot of other people have said, if anyone other then MS had 90% market share they would be the ones getting all of the security heat.

I find it amusing that the same people who post here that are having problems are the same ones barely able to form proper English sentences.

If you can't master the English language then you probably aren?t smart enough to comment on matters like Microsoft operating system security let alone a real operating systems like Unix or Linux.

"Further, you will be amazed at how long you put up with third-rate hardware and a buggy, hellacious OS like Windows."

Last I checked macs have cheaped out and started using the same hardware as pc's. Same PCI Bus, Same AGP, same vid cards and network cards, same everything. There has been nothing new or innovative out of apple in years.

"Lost Productivity" ???????

WHAT U SPEAK??? I have 5 boxes in my home. I am on my Deban box as I type. My main net gateway is an old 400mhz AMD that has been running xp for 2 years and has not been rebooted since MAY!!!
Most of the lost productivity that may come in a business environment comes from moron employees downloading software that crashes, makes things buggy or brings in a virus.

Thirdly, I can crash my mac, I can crash my Debian box and I can crash xp. You hear more about windows crashes because DUH!!! most people run windows. There are 9000 times more junk software available online for windows. and most morons that own a computer like you don't know about basic system maintenance. I bet you have 45 freakin process running on your machine and don't even know what I am talking about.

GET A FREAKIN LIFE!! STOP BLAMING MS BECAUSE YOU CANT RUN A COMPUTER!!
Most problems you blame on MS have other obvious carses that make 10 times more sense.

PS My SID box will kick your but.

I hope the polish SP2 up a bit before the release it to the masses.. I can't see people sitting through a 3 hour first boot with a 2.0G P4, which is what my machine did with the beta..

Oh yea, we aren't time travelers.. We are living life on the bleeding beta edga!

" I find it amusing that the same people who post here that are having problems are the same ones barely able to form proper English sentences.

If you can't master the English language then you probably aren?t smart enough to comment on matters like Microsoft operating system security let alone a real operating systems like Unix or Linux."

I think it is obvious that you are a loser. Is that clear and proper enough for you.

Try running Doom 3 on Nix or Mac.

hehehehehehehe

boy you people have a hard time getting along,to me it dosn't make any diffrence who makes the os as long as it gives me no head aches. as for the rest stop and think whos making the big bucks from the vires and other crap that we receve.

boy you people have a hard time getting along,to me it dosn't make any diffrence who makes the os as long as it gives me no head aches. as for the rest stop and think whos making the big bucks from the vires and other crap that we receve.

I work for a commercial software vendor. We tested XP SP2 Release Candidate 2 to see how our product fares against it, and found problems.

As of release candidate 2 of SP2, this service pack caused problems with installations of MSDE (to include SP3a, despite what Microsoft may tell you). To get around the problems, you have to dig deep to find a script somewhere that configures the mess behind the scenes. Took us hours to figure this out (I don't have the URL for this script handy.. sorry).

Our problem involved not being able to get a service on an XP SP2 machine to communicate via MDAC to MSDE SP3a (installed on a separate XP SP2 machine). We had all the known ports required for proper communications open, so that wasn't the nature of the problem.

I really hope Microsoft opted to fix this glaring problem prior to inflicting this service pack on our customers. Otherwise, our tech support people will very likely need to do something that may not be recommended just so customers can use our product properly.

Agreed: If Macs were #1 then they'd be attacked more

However, Apple are nearly always quick off the mark... as soon as a flaw (very rare anyway) becomes apparant they release a patch.

I use PCs and Macs, the Macintosh platform with OS X is superier by far. However, WindowsXP was and still is a good OS - far better than anything before it. People are always quick to judge Microsoft, but I respect their software - I use Office on my Macs and PCs (yes the Mac version is better :p) and there is no other app on the Mac or PC which comes close to Office (although ThinkOffice/NeoOffice/OpenOffice is getting there).

I'm looking forward to Microsoft's SP2.

try running doom 3 on nix or mac he sez.....

ok i did on my Linux OS'd AMD 2500 XP OC'ed to 2300 MHZ, with 4 GB ram....

no problems......so whats with the comment "try running doom 3" ???

A wise man never walks out of free entermainment.

(All the comments have been very entertaining & free... ;-) )

A wise man never walks out of free entermainment.

(All the comments have been very entertaining & free... ;-) )

Interesting how no one cares to touch the Apache comment by Julio F Schwarzbeck. Sure there were problems (chunking before 1.3.24 was it ?), but they were quickly fixed.

Bottom line - use what you want and be happy about it. MS isn't the biggest thing since sliced bread, so get over it fanboys. They are, however, a ruthless business opponent and have fantastic PR and marketing departments.

I've bane useing these here fancy machinse for bout 15 yrears mybe longer Msn is bout as good as anything out thwere and most other folks thenk so alos..Why not jest use what you like and be happy or fix it youself..

I have Windows XP SP1 running on my desktop. I reboot at most once a month, and trust me, the machine IS used a lot. My notebook, on which I develop, runs the same OS, and I reboot maybe every week -- mostly, for reasons unrelated to MS. No software is perfect, and I think MS did a very good job with WinXP (especially, if you don't run IE :-)). Now, router, firewall, NAT etc -- you need these with Linux/MacOS as well; and if you don't use them ... well, your loss

Read this and soak it in...

http://www.againsttcpa.com/tcpa-faq-en.html

Microsoft spreads Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt?

Well, Linux zealots spread Fanaticism and Undying Devotion. Different kind of FUD, same thing though.

I won't be touching this patch with a ten foot pole for a minimum of 30 days. I never put their new "tested" patches on my system as soon as they come out. I have plenty of other security in place, I don't need their stinking patches! Let the rest of you lemmings do their final beta test for them..... mwuahaha!

"Just went to the Microsoft web site to turn on auto download for SP2. Turning it on created a sound I never heard before."

If your hard disk crashed, it was a coincidence. I've had autoupdate turned on for a long time and have never had a problem.

And if you're going to make up stories, you should try to get the details right. You can't turn on auto download (sic) from the web. You turn on auto updates by going to the control panel and either using the Automatic Updates control or the Auto Updates tab on the System control. Then you check a box to "Keep my computer up to date". This is no different than running any other software. Yes, it might cause your disk to make noise -- the same sound it makes when you save any file to disk -- as it downloads the updates you haven't installed yet.

Why do I hear these two comments so frequently?

"I wish Microsoft would just fix all of their bugs."

"I wish Microsoft would stop releasing patches."

You can't have it both ways. My opinion?

"I wish hackers would stop what they're doing and do something constructive instead."

After reading this entire thread, I realize I have no life.........

I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How to get CD? I looked at ms update and saw no link. Any help much appreciated. MP

yes, when most of the posts gets deleted by the assholes out there who only keep the fuked up stupid posts, yes, u realize its just waste of time reading their shit

The CD is not out yet, wait for few weeks

Pissed User - You need medicine.

"I've tried a lot of 3rd party popup stoppers and have never had one do the job that the one that come packed with SP2 does."

This is the most ridiculous claim I've heard so far. Creating a new type of application called "popup stoppers" to fix a problem with the browser is not the solution. I don't care if they make the best popu stopper ever imagined, that whole category of software should not exist. Use Firefox or Safari or Opera or any other reasonable browser which does not allow aribtrary control of your machine by the remote server.

I actualy will go out now and get drunk after reading this topic

Firefox is superior in every way imaginable. It is a tabbed browser that does not allow windows to pop open unsless you choose the link. RC open in new tab, ShiftClick open in new tab - none of this "9 instances of IE running" or one button with fifteen referrences to open IE windows... popups are a flaw in the browser that has been exploited as a "feature"
IE is antiquated and needs to be updates. It is not an OS issue. Unfortunately, we had to live through the OS/Browser marriage and Faux divorce back in 99 - now it is sleeping with autoupdate.

What's all the fuss about? I?m running Linus' Operating System Ten, and I have zero problems! (Unfortunately, there aren?t any applications that run on this system that work with anything else that the rest of the world is using, so I might as well turn it off.)

The argument of Windows vs. Linux (or IE vs. Firefox) is really an argument of Closed Source vs. Open Source. The open source community argues that with so many people looking at the code, people with good intentions trying to find exploitable bugs is a lot better then trusting the producer of a closed source piece of software and having malicious users exploit bugs that may be unknown to the general public until it is too late.

Two weeks ago I upgraded to a 120GB hard drive and my tech at cpcomputers.net installed SP2 to my XP op sys, so I guess the that patch has been out for a while. Or, is the new mega patch Microsoft will release next week something new? Anybody...

Posted by Bobo the Clown on Saturday, August 07, 2004, 12:19 PM (PST)

Try running Doom 3 on Nix or Mac.

hehehehehehehe

Just a side note: I run Unreal Tournament 2004, Neverwinter Nights, and Quake 3 on my Linux box all the time. (Well, not Q3 as much not that I have UT2004 :) Anyway, it runs great, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Doom3 ran just as well.

(I do hope, however, that more games are released for Linux in the future. But in the meantime, I bought UT2004 because of its Linux support, and play it quite regularly.)

A note in the public interest:

If you want to actually use your computer to get things done, get a Mac.

However, if you enjoy spending hours downloading patches to patches which are meant to patch patches to patch a patch that broke a patch to patch previously patched patches, and then dozens more hours troubleshooting the patched patches, by all means go ahead and continue to support Microsoft.

Why is it that nearly everyone who has worked with a Mac (and especially those who have had to work on a PC) universally say, "I love my Mac!" Why is it that we never hear anyone say, "Windows is the BEST! I love my Dell!"

I'm always amazed how MS/PC folks attack Mac folks. Is it because they have so much time, trouble and money invested in their PCs that to realize that there is a better way would require them to reevaluate everything that they think they know about using a computer?

Here's an interesting article that addresses the problem in more detail. Cut and paste the URL into your browser if necessary.
http://www.macdailynews.com/opinion_comments.php?id=P1978_0_2_0_C

I agree that MS should torrent SP2, but I also disagree because they would try to make their own proprietary way and it would be full of bugs and problems and security issues and flaws and anything else common to MS's software.

MYIE2 is a mush better browser than firefox. The only problem- it is an Internet Explorer shell, meaning that it has all the problems of IE(it does have built-in popup blocking and tabbed browsing).

About auto-update SP2? Hey MS, I'm on dial-up. Send us the CDs instead, thank you

Try running Doom 3 on Nix or Mac.

hehehehehehehe

As another side-note: Unreal 2004 and all the rest are avaiable for OSX and on Activision's blog they state Mac version of Doom 3 should be released "soon" which usually means in the month.

Linux users could run Doom 3 immediately because Id released binaries to play the CD almost as soon as the product was released in stores.

Hence, games are not limited to Windows anymore by any stretch of the imagination.. and even the game developers are now catering to the Liunx and Mac crowd. Also with Office 2004 for the Mac (which is better than 2003 as all the reviewers agreed) there is 0 conversion or fun issues involved in getting an Apple.. only price (which as many noted is cheap when compared to cost of ownership of Windows XP).

So, I'll take that last laugh with a slice of Aqua please

Microsoft is great, who dragged us all out of the dark ages of dos , microsoft did with windows.
Today allmost everyone has a pc and internet.
People are jealous and its all so common to attack the most succsessfull, They do have a monopoly , sure but who else is offering what they have ? I say great job to Bill Gates, keep up the good work, and let me know if I can be of any help. My company recommends microsoft products, builds OEM with Ms installed and generaly I have made my living selling and supporting microsoft producs, so I for one am very happy, I still remember my first pc with dos 3.3 and I think by comparison Windows XP has come along way.

Well, Tony King. You'll be glad to know you'll get ZERO business from me and my company.

What if Unix went away?

The argument that Windows' 99.99999999% market share (pity that one lone fool who uses something else!) and thus the target of virus writers is fallacacious at best. In point of fact, most of the Internet runs on servers using some form of UNIX -- both commercial and Open Source.

If virus writers really wanted to make a big splash, what would be bigger these days than making half the Internet go away? It should be an easy job, since these few UNIX, Linux, BSD, HPUX and Solaris servers are just as full of holes as Microsoft servers, right? And because Billionaire Bill can afford to pay thousands of programmers to make Windows secure, UNIX probably has MORE holes... Right?

No, people who subscribe to the fallacy that UNIX has "security through obscurity" simply don't get it. Unix is secure because it is mature and designed to be secure. If you don't believe me, google "OpenBSD" and see why it is impervious to attack.

In a nutshell, "whitehat" crackers are constantly trying to hijack samples of EVERY operating system -- Windows, OS X, UNIX, Linux, BSD, Solaris... All of them. They report their results back to the OS authors. The difference is that the UNIX variants, including OS X, tend to take these reports seriously and develop security patches within hours and days.

On the other hand, Microsoft, upon receiving the same information, issues Knowledge Base articles, and eventually hot-fixes and even more eventually, Service Packs.

I meant "fallacious".

Whitehat "c r a c k e r s", not profanity.

I've been using SP2 since the beta version was made available and have not had a problem.

First of all, to all you Mac cultists, it isn't PC users who attack Mac users, it's the other way around. And before you go spouting that 15-year-old canard that "Macs just work", go on over to the Apple discussion board and check out what REALLY is going on with crashing Macs, particularly G5's on OSX. There's so many, and Apple can't fix them, that Apple keeps deleting the posts and threads which complain. We keep having to start new threads (I am a G5 owner AND a PC owner, and I use Linux as well). Go on, check it out, or simply put the words "G5 freeze" or G5 crash" into Google. There's even talk of a class-action suit, but you Mac apologists keep looking like the Iraqi Information Minister.

Yes, Microsoft is lousy compared to Linux and, yes, Linux needs to be more easily usable for the non-intellectuals (and more compatible with mainstream software). And XP really is an improvement to a degree on previous Microsoft software. But the main point here is that this "Mac is God... get a Mac" thing, complete with veiled snickers, is the computer world equivalent of Jim Jones, David Koresh and the Moonies.

Knock off the propaganda campaign. Go read the truth and get your heads out of your rears.

Quote:
Why is it that nearly everyone who has worked with a Mac (and especially those who have had to work on a PC) universally say, "I love my Mac!" Why is it that we never hear anyone say, "Windows is the BEST! I love my Dell!"

Reply:
Ok, this sort of comment is really getting annoying. I have been using a Mac for nearly a year now with OS X, right along side my PC (I test software that needs to run on both platforms). The Mac is remarkably less stable than any version of Windows I have ever run, except for Win3.1. On a daily basis, the software I'm running on the Mac crashes, or the Mac itself crashes (you gotta love with the computer just mysteriously reboots itself for no apparent reason). When was the last time that happened on my Dell? Um...never.

The Mac is a joy to use? It is the most infuriatingly frustrating environment I have ever seen. The user inface is incredibly difficult to navigate around in. Network connections are notoriously famous for being lost, the ridiculous one button mouse is the first input device I've ever used that make my wrist an arm hurt. The display is fuzzy and difficult to read, leading to eye strain (very odd since graphics and display is supposed to be the Mac's strong suit).

What in the world is there to like about this thing? How can anyone rationally claim that productivity will boost on the Mac platform with its lousy memory management? Windows is certainly not perfect, but I'll take Windows XP on a 300 MHz machine over a Mac at any speed when I want to actually get something useful accomplished.

I come a long way. Starting with DRDOS, trying 3.11 and landed at XP. It's not problem free, but the best I had so far. ALL trouble comes from fools who write virus and that kind of trouble. Wake up and use a firewall.

Continuing with Max's suggestion, 'G5 Crash' yields 37500 results on Google, 'XP crash' yields 675000 restults, ie 18 times more. XP users are much more than 18 times G5 users. So Googlempirically XP has fewer crashes.

PS. 'XP crash' query wasn't limited to one processor configuration

I also agree SP2 should have been made available on torrent sites. I wish they would have more legit uses for bittorrent than downloading 3CDs of Doom 3 two days before its available in stores.

I would prefer to have an OS create a patch in a matter of hours than wait a week or so to apply them.
That to me MEANS "security at work"

My definition of an operating system is that it is 'a necessary evil'. It has no right to be noticed at all. Who cares about car engines anymore? It should just keep running. I love my XP machines for that!

My whole sysetem is pirated. This includes XP Pro, Office, Paintshop and a bunch of others. The only software that I paid for was a copy of Win 98 for $10 about 5 years ago.

Continuing with Max's suggestion, 'G5 Crash' yields 37500 results on Google, 'XP crash' yields 675000 restults, ie 18 times more. XP users are much more than 18 times G5 users. So Googlempirically XP has fewer crashes.

Wow, would you ever fail a stats class.

Each OS has its strong points, but nearly every post here seems to have a strong bias. Being a Mac lover, I cringe when I read some of the pro-Mac posts from sheer lack of objectivity. Same for the XP user who 'tests' software and claims to have their Mac crash more often. You, sir, haven't a clue about what you just said. You *test* software and have crashes? Somehow, I wonder what is wrong with your system. Fixing both PCs and Macs for a living, I see a hugely disproportionate number of Windows problems compared to the Macs. While I do see Macs crash (typically from something stupid the user did like install cheap incompatible RAM rather than the OS or their software), I see at least 20 times the same effect in the Windows world. For an OS that has 95% of the market, those stats suggest Windows XP has more than its dominant market share of problems (I don't promote 2K, ME or 95, but I do suggest people leave their 98SE alone and not upgrade).

The Mac is an elegant operating system. Since 10.1.5, it has been very stable, and 10.3.4 finally has the feature set Mac users have been clamoring for since 2001. Yes, we have to wait years for our OS to mature, too. But the Mac OS didn't come insecure out of the box. One has to turn on a bunch of ports and intentionally turn off firewalls even to have a security issue. And then, it is usually from script kiddies abusing 1080 or looking for dlls. XP was a threat out of the box. MS has a chance to really redeem themselves with this release. For the sake of all internet users (Mac, Linux and PC), let's hope they get this one right. MS security flaws cost me real money from all the spam and wasted bandwidth, and for that I hold a grudge. The rest is personal taste. Like in religion and politics, none of you are "right". Get over it, fellas.

The most enlightening post came from the person who said "I don't have a life" after reading these posts. Boy, is he ever on target. I'm going to turn off this dumb computer (they are all dumb computers) and go do something outside.

Fedora sux ,all the apps in linux look like "Made in 1994",yeah your systems are so secure.But at east windows has plenty of eye candy & can play all video games not some such as linux.Dont even go there with me either as I have nixed alot of distros since 1996.

In a nutshell Linux sux..

Fedora sux ,all the apps in linux look like "Made in 1994",yeah your systems are so secure.But at east windows has plenty of eye candy & can play all video games not some such as linux.Dont even go there with me either as I have nixed alot of distros since 1996.

In a nutshell Linux sux..

And here we go again. Remember MSBlaster, MyDoom, MyJuice, Nimda, SQLSlammer, Code Red, Melissa, I Love You, Swen, Netsky, etc, etc, etc...? Seems people have a short memory. How many times does it take people to learn that you don't open attachments? How many times does it take people to learn that you need a firewall when you connect to the Internet? Not enough it seems. I run FreeBSD. It makes Microsoft look like a joke and Linux look like it came from someone's garage. I missed out on all the stuff floating around on the net. Too bad for me I guess.

Mike C. There you are again spouting your mac puke all over.
Your mac was an over priced pos with pc hardware
There is nothing special about macs anymore exept for the processor and os. I have 1 mac 2 xp machines and 2 linux boxes. Sorry but hands down I can do more with my XP machines than any of them. My OS of choice is Debian Linux but sometimes I just gotta use those damn xp boxes. The biggest problem with the mac and linux boxes I own. LACK OF SOFTWARE!!!! All your other arguments aside. What good is a computer if It can't do what you want it to do?

Hey! I LOVE MY PC!! There now you have heard it.

This posted while using Debian. The best distro period!

Mike C. There you are again spouting your mac puke all over.
Your mac was an over priced pos with pc hardware
There is nothing special about macs anymore exept for the processor and os. I have 1 mac 2 xp machines and 2 linux boxes. Sorry but hands down I can do more with my XP machines than any of them. My OS of choice is Debian Linux but sometimes I just gotta use those damn xp boxes. The biggest problem with the mac and linux boxes I own. LACK OF SOFTWARE!!!! All your other arguments aside. What good is a computer if It can't do what you want it to do?

Hey! I LOVE MY PC!! There now you have heard it.

This posted while using Debian. The best distro period!

Although admittedly, Windows has still some way to go before it becomes a secure environment, Microsoft is doing a good job, with all these hacker jerks trying to mess up with people's life.hey, give them a break!are u jealous of the money they have?it looks like you are.Microsoft has given so much to develop the industry, you cant ignore it.Microsoft is here to stay.

MAC X isn't an apple operating system. Its a ripped off version of Unix, and there windowing environment runs on top of it like just like windows 3x use to run on DOS.

As for XP, there was all types of complaints about MS leaving it wide open to whatever anyone wanted to do with it before it was released.

Saying they are doing a good job fixing something that should have never been a problem in the fiirst place I don't understand that one.

Wow, its unbelievable how stupid people are.
Winodws has anywhere from 90-95% of the market share of PCs. From an idiots point of view, for every mac problem you hear about (like say the g5 crash problem) you should hear about 18-19 windows problems.
Problem 1: We all know as a system grows larger its problems will grow exponentionally. There is no longer a LINEAR connection between the two points.
Want a real life example? Think about crime in cities. you have a city of 100,000 with xxx crimes a year, you then havea city of 1 million... would you say the 1 million city is worse off because they have more then 10 x the crimes of the 100k city? if they only had 15-20x the crime of the 100k city they'd be doing quite well.

Get a clue seriously. Linux and Macs are under used boxes. End of story. They cannot play games and the vast majority of households contain at least 1 gamer (be it a child or parent, or just the bachelor gamer)
it works like this:
Windows based PCs are good for games
most office folk have families
most families have a gamer
most office folk take documents home to work on them
most offices now use windows
since most offices use windows, people who have to deal with those offics tend to use windows to make documetn transfer easier (this is getting easier now that you can convert better)
People who don't have gamers in their family but need a PC to bring work home to, use windows now because of the way this developed

Windows PCs are incredibly cheap
people are stupid
Windows is less complicated then Linux
see "people are stupid"
Most people get windows

windows has the biggest market share
game makers want to make money
they make games for PCs..with the odd one getting ported to linux or Mac

Really guys

I think that our Billy Gates should donate a couple of his billions back to Microsoft for getting better people to create better programs without having to update or patch stuff. Guys the guy has made it and can live without working, and even worse, almost all of their programs contain errors bugs etc. We should buy software from other companies to not have viruses, not getting hacked, browsing internet, chatting with people. Really even though Bill is rich, he still has to do a lot to get the world happy. I also would like to recommend everybody to NOT update to SP2!!! He should make the software cheaper also because any company will buy it and also the rest of the word. Make it cheaper and get better programmers with better scripts. And hey, if you would like to download it than I?d like to advise Microsoft to buy extra servers with more bandwidth to let the world download their stupid SP2. And if I where you I?d wait with downloading all of these updates for at least a month and a half, because likely there will be lots off errors, bugs, leaks etc. And still after all updates and extra programs bug fixes etc. will always be there. There will never be a perfect OS
Everything must get newer better heavier but at the same time, much safer!!!(don?t use IE)(opera is much better)

O yeah hackers who thy to get in to peoples system (with bad meanings) should stop doing that, this with the same for virus makers an ad aware, malware, spam. (it?s not funny)

Axel

SP2...What to make of it. I will, chances are, download it and install it, and continue to do so for all of my computers. As for ragging on Microsoft, im all for it. I think it is pathetic the prices they charge for their software. Im a student, and I, quite frankly, dont want to dish out like 100 or so bucks just for frontpage. Its lame.

I believe that Microsoft IS a greedy monster machine waiting to self destruct & its NOT too far off either.
And it will either be from the public OR the congress to help it go down.
Oh & YESSS, I will wait till the CD disks are made available to get the updates.
And shame on MS to think they have the world by the balls.

And to Harry Cracken, MS should be more worried if people DON'T download their updates than anything else.

oopss, I'm sorry for the previous typo, Harry McCraken ;)

oopss, I'm sorry for the previous typo, Harry McCraken ;)

I believe that Microsoft IS a greedy monster machine waiting to self destruct & its NOT too far off either.
And it will either be from the public OR the congress to help it go down.
Oh & YESSS, I will wait till the CD disks are made available to get the updates.
And shame on MS to think they have the world by the balls.

Windows XP SP2 crashed my Compaq Presario 2500 series notebbok twice. Don't install it unless you want the features that Windows XP SP2 provides.

Windows Xp-SP2 crashed my Dell Dimension too.. I keep getting the blue screen of death after every 2 hours or so. I removed it and now things work fine. I miss the IE with pop-up blocker though. I would wait until they release the IE seperatley.

Well.. the reason for crash is still unknown to me.. but i think i should blame it on the DVD-RW drive i have from SONY or the Memory stick reader/writer from SONY. These r the only 2 hardwares i installed after getting my system..

Anybody has any ideas on compatibility issues with these hardwares?

grfws

There shouldn't be so many holes in windows for how long it has exsisted. windows has been out for almost 10 years and there are still way to many holes in the OS. I think that they rewrite the the kernel and OS every time that they want to do something different with windows. There was FAT32 then NTFS then some new File System in LongHorn. If they would fix all of the holes before releasing a new OS every year than this problem wouldn't be as bad.

NTFS was here before FAT32, windowzzzzz XP is just the next generation of what started as a nice OS (DOS 6.22) but as the name suggests, with eXTRA PROBLEMS.

How many versions of Windowzzz have MS released to date and at what cost to your pocket? Are you prepared to continue to pay for a product that promises the world and yet fails to deliver the basics of a stable and secure OS? I'm not giving MS a penny of my hard earnt cash until they release the OS that they say they will deliver. Why don't they concentrate on what an OS should do instead of coding stupid stuff like paint, wordpad and all that other cr4p they ship with it?

The definition of an OS is that it is the stable base upon which other applications can run, it should handle drive access (DISC OPERATING SYSTEM), hardware integration hooks and thats about it.
We don't want MS to give us a load of bling for free when the bit we paid for doesn't work properly.

As for the debate about linux/unix/solaris vs MS windowzzz its a non starter, MS use code from these operating systems in their own code because they are not technical enough to code these bits themselves, the TCP/IP comes straight out of unix, grep the code if you don't believe me but its well publicised and you can check it for yourselves.

torrent windows updates?

Are you mad !!!!

what your saying is that you don't mind downloading an update for your OS from an unknown and untrusted number of sources... how do you know that one of these sources hasn't modified a bit of it to exploit the people who download it from them.

The reason MS has changed the way they deliver the updates is due to something like the above comment. People could inject an activeX object into your computer and override the official MS activeX component which was previously used to get your updates.

MS should send everyone who has purchased XP in the past, a new disc with the fully patched software on it free of charge. Remember the tyres on those pickup trucks that were faulty and caused several deaths... you didn't see people PAYING for safe new tyres... its the manufacturers responsibility like these bugs are!

Is anything microsoft have ever released ready?

NO !!!

Thats one of the reasons several states in the usa have successfully sued big old Bill for some of his billions. My advice to Bill would be to stop humping h00kers and start writting some decent code.

Linux will one day take over whatever your opinion may be... OSX is based on linux so stop banging on about Mac's... us linux users have been enjoying what you Maccie's are now enjoying for years now. Macs are good and stable as are x86 systems that have been built by large players like HP, DELL and Fujitsu... its all about what components are in them as well as the OS, its a balance.

DONT USE IE (Internet Explorer)

If you are still using Internet Explorer, SP2 or not stop it or prepare for the worst. Several exploits are still unpatched, its very slow at rendering pages and as with all MS products it tries to be to clever which only backfires on either the system or the user.

Get firefox today, its the fastest, safest mozzila compliant browser available and its very good at stopping popups.

How much power will we need to run the next version of Windows?

MS are in bed with every manufacturer they can be..

The idea is you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours, MS make the next OS so big and bulky you now need 10gig of free space to install it, you need 2 gig of DDR400 memory to run it, a 256meg gfx card etc etc..

All of this keeps the industry happy, keeps us consumers spending money on new PC's etc etc..

Gracis