Is Sony Trying to Kill the CD Format for Music?

I couldnt agree more

My guess is that Macintosh computers come out unscathed in all of this. You probably can rip all the songs on one of these disks using a mac in no time flat too.

My experiences with these 99 cent purchased songs is that their DRM is very restrictive... I looks to me like I get to have it on three devices period. For ever. My CD's that I bought in 1988 still play on any CD player. I don't even have the players that were used in the '80s. My daughter is buying songs from Walmart... But I'm concerned that in a few years, once her current PC and her current MP3 player are dead and gone, that we'll have a bunch of digital songs that we can't do a dang thing with... And that's not fair. We've bought those songs...

i second that

I can't wait for the first virus/spyware that uses sonys rootkit to hide!!! Good job sony, DRM is doomed with stupid actions like this. Will i ever buy a sony product again? not a chance, can't trust them.

Amen

Its a good thing us Windows users have the Mac and Linux people available to seed the File Sharing networks!

Is there an email address where Sony can be reached and not ignored? If enough customer outrage hits their inbox, they'll have to pay attention.

Don, please keep in mind that you can always burn a CD (on a blank CD) with songs you have purchased from iTunes (although, we can all agree the quality is not that that you would get off a CD or vinyl). From there, your daughter can continually burn duplicates off that original iTunes-burned disc, until CDs cease to be a format. Her mp3 player, computer, and drive may become obsolete, but as long as she has it stored digitally, there will always be a way to get it off the CD/Hard Drive. Sorry to say, I don't know anything about music purchased through Wal-Mart. I boycotted them because of business practices in 1999.

Your guess on the Mac is correct it does not recognize Sony's software and does not install it.

This is absurd! If I want to store music on my computer, I should be able to do it without having some money grubbing company hiding a program on my computer just in case I might try to copy it elsewhere. Notice I said "might." That doesn't mean I will. Additionally, there are times when I want to burn a CD of my favorite music. That means I'll pull a song from this CD, a coule from that CD, etc. It doesn't mean I'm trying to rip off some company.

Songs purchased from iTunes Music store do use Fairplay DRM.
All one has to do to remove the DRM is make a copy onto a blank CD as an Audio CD. A good idea, anyway.*

Also, you can copy these songs to an umlimited number of iPods.
You can also authorize or deauthorize computers at your will.
Yes, you can only play it on five, but you can choose which five.

*Once copied to an Audio CD you can rip as MP3s and install anywhere you wish, or on any MP3 player you wish.

Sony is a sh*tty company who wants to invent everything and say it's the standard...they act like Apple, making file formats and products that only work with their branded items.

Sony doing this didn't surprise me...and I am almost certain Symantec and all those Firewall/Antivirus/Spyware products do the same stuff...how else can you explain that despite all these programs available, virus KEEP being made? Coincidence? I think not.

And that program being made by some UK company? Wouldn't surprise me if Sony set that phony business up years back STRICTLY for this so they could keep any lawsuits or legal stuff separate in some way from the S itself...and if that's the case, how many other secret companies (or even well known ones) are actually all being run by the big giant CD/Music businesses?

Digital songs bought through iTunes, Napster, etc. are wastes of $...like that lady said about her daughter in an earlier post, 5 or 10 yrs. from now, do you think these formats will even be worth having - or could you even use them?

NO.

Musicians are paid too much as it is - I think all the piracy and loss of $ is for the best in teh long run.

old great gobbity goop

This is enough to make me avoid all Sony products, from TV to Vaio PCs. If they do that with the CDs, there is no telling what garbage they will have in their Playstation.

iTunes music is certainly restricted in the sense that you're getting a lower-quality (MP3 quality instead of CD quality) recording even after you burn it to CD.

If you want unrestricted music, buy it from artists, labels, and online services that don't use DRM at all.

If you want to get itunes songs and put them anywhere use a lovely little program called JHymn (Here Your Music aNywhere) found here http://hymn-project.org/download.php

Would it be feasible to force Sony BMG to pay a license fee for every pc they install their software on? After all they are seeking to prevent unauthorized usage of their products by charging a fee. Seems fair that they should pay a fee to put their unauthorized product on my hardware. Perhaps a $1.00 per reboot.

The musicians aren't paid that much.

The distributors are paid far too much.

I said, forget it all. I stream free music via internet radio (shoutcast, win media player, whatever). There's so many different stations that I always find something on. For free. Without DRM. Without helping Sony's sorry behind with anything more than 7/100ths of a cent.

And I think even that is too much.

Support musicians through concerts. Sod CD's. Sod MP3's too. Sod off on 'distributors' too.

Just say "No SONY no baloney!"

I am sorry buy this just made pirated music bigger freakin idiots.

Oh, and incidentally, the next time you consider buying a Sony laptop, ask yourself if this junk will come preinstalled.

Sony, in general, sucks. I made the mistake of purchasing a couple of things from them lately: a DVD player and a CD. The DVD player crapped out, to the week, one year after I purchased it with a known problem that can be seen all over the 'net. They actually took the time to call me to tell me that they weren't going to do anything about it and that it wasn't a common problem, which is objectively not true. OK, I'll never buy Sony crapquipment again. That's easy enough.

The CD was laced with copy protection crap so that I couldn't put it on my MP3 player without going through all kinds of gyrations. So, I bought this CD (I don't listen to actual CDs ever), and it was specifically made to prevent me from listening to it in the manner I chose?

Sony is emblematic of an industry grasping desperately at the good old days when customers could be gouged at will because of the pricing controls exerted by the oligopoly. Now, to futilely try to protect that position, they'll stoop at nothing and listen to no one in the pursuit of their "rights."

Their rights? They're nothing more than vendors. Vendors can sell me stuff if they provide what I want in a manner that I want it. Otherwise, rest assured that I'll get what I want elsewhere.

Sony is pathetic.

actually, killing off CDs might be to SONY's advantage, since then they could come up with a new format that only a new device can play...

Anyway, how long was the CD market supposed to last?

I hope the people affected by Sony's latest stupidity can get the resources together to launch a class-action suit against the company to dissuade Sony and any other company coming up with these no-class schemes from attempting it again. It is illegal and unethical to install anything on a computer without informing the user up front of any software installation going on. It certainly proves the point that the musicians have been saying for a very long time that the execs at the record companies are the low-life scum they say they are.

Let's all say it together -

"DON'T BUY SONY!"

"DON'T BUY SONY!"

Any argument Sony had against song-sharing just evaporated. Two wrongs don't make a right. I'll never buy another Sony product for as long as I live.

After many back handed Sony problems I refuse to purchase anything from Sony ever again. They do not have the customers best interest in mind and continue to shoot themselves in the foot. Anything I own that is Sony as it dies off will be replaced by anything but Sony. Its amazing how many problems I have with my Sony DVD player trying to play DVD's that I burn myself which contain home movies but never have a problem playing on any other system. This is just one of many problems. I recently returned a Sony PC because it wouldnt load popular software due to incompatbilities on Sony's part yet Sony has thier own software which they insist you buy as a work around. I also returned a Sony MP3 player when I found out they wanted me to convert my entire MP3 collect to Sony's Atrac format. In short DONT BUY SONY!!!! You will always find a hidden problem thats not in your favor. You have been warned!!!!!

Well I'm pissed. Sony with all thier proprietary crap. The mini-disc would have been the best thing in the world had Sony shared it. Good thing I haven't bought a CD since Napster came out. And as far as buying Sony products well they don't make the best of anything so why worry.

Regarding Wal-Mart, if you backup your licenses properly you should be able to move them to another computer.

But I admit the process is difficult and usually easy to screw up. I have had to call Wal*Mart 3 times over the last 2 years to reactivate music that didn't work anymore (i.e. due to crashes that involved reinstalling Windows, etc.). I will say that they are pretty nice about doing this for you though, although I am annoyed that I even have to do this.

1. Picket large music retailers with a sign that says: "Boycott Sony CD's". The retailers have a bigger voice than us small consumers.
2. Ask your music retailers to stop carrying Sony CD's.

Sure, Sony's actions are reprehensible. But the real problem is Windows. How can people tolerate an operating system that can be so easily infected by something like an audio CD?

A fundamental principle of secure system design is a rigorous distinction between data and program. An audio CD contains (or should contain) nothing but data. No matter what bit patterns are on a data disk, absolutely nothing should happen to the programs on the computer reading it.

Mac OS X doesn't have a problem doing this. Linux doesn't have a problem with this. BSD doesn't have a problem with this. Why do people tolerate it when Windows has problems like this?

It appears most of the media companies, both hardware and software venders, are bowing to the big music, video labels who wish to stop the piracy of what they term, as their right to own the copyrighted version of a song, video, and etc. However, to sell only the right for one to listen or see , belongs only in the theaters and concert halls. I, for one, will not let someone/anyone dictate to me how I play and listen to music and/or see a certain video I have made legal purchase of, nor will they restrict my use thereof by either the hidden or otherwise unwritten policy editor built into a player, cd equipment or other machines developed for such purposes. This is one of the reasons I think long and hard about upgrading software and equipment in this day and time since it is prevalent for such companies such as MusicMatch and Sony to build in these parameters to their machines and software. How do you stop this continueing abuse of" Buy from us or not at all" attitude. Well, it works this way in most cases, I have to eat, I need transportation, I need a telephone, I have to pay taxes and obey the laws of the country, and finally I have to die, but I'll be damned if I have or need to own a Sony! So let those who wish to maintain a going business retail concern beware, you can build it with all your restrictions, you can probably market it to a bunch of dumb-asses, but Ill be DAMNed if I need to be one and/or buy it.

yeah right..
they're forgetting people can play media with linux too.. and how are they going to install such stuff to linux?

With respect to installing software these days I would recommend that you always use some kind of mapping utility to launch the executable rather than doing it yourself. This way, you'll have a log of everything that hits your file system and nothing should be hidden, even some root kit stuff.

With regard to DRM. DRM v2 has now been cracked. Now I'm not advocating what the bad hackers do but if Sony, Walmart, et. al, think it's perfectly acceptable to regulate the use of a product, which I've bought, then I'm going to employ every weapon in the arsenal to remove oppressive things for the consumer like DRM.

Using Google to search for things like install mappers (I use Inctrl5) and DRM removal tools is pretty easy. DRM bypass tool methods range from sampling the media and creating a clean copy from that sample to applications which find the license key and remove it from the file... check ?em out!!!!

That does it...no PSP for my son this Christmas and Sony is officially off the list of consider vendors for the HDTV we'll be getting as well!

Please please, tell me what Sony CD's are doing this, I need to rush out and buy one immediately and you all should as well to be included in the class action suit. This practice is illegal and has shown premeditaded criminal activity. I haven't checked this out and I'm still skeptical as to the fact that I couldn't imagine a compmany of their size initiating this criminal activity with the risk of such a large potential of fines and legal woes.

For those claiming this doesn't affect Mac & Linux -- you're wrong.

The "CD" isn't an audio CD. It is a data CD that has .WMA protected files that WILL NOT PLAY ON A NORMAL (non-computer) CD player. They ONLY play if you use the included "player" software.

Thus, while Mac & Linux won't get infected, neither will they be able to hear the music.

BOYCOTT THE RIAA!! This is a perfect example of some of the not so legal things they try to get away with! BOYCOTT THE RIAA!!

I will no longer buy any cds.

Sony doesn't sell WMA data CDs. What you just said makes no sense.

all cds bought from sony BMG that say enhaced copyright protection have it.... thats thousands of cd's

I've been considering getting a laptop of late, with a Vaio being on the shortlist. After understanding how this program works, even if it is mentioned in one of those stupid EULAs, let's just say that I now refuse to get a Vaio (let alone CDs).

I had the WoW box in my hand at Wal-Mart the other week, because a friend was tempting me to come on there and play it with her, but then I heard about what their Warden program does (I *do* know it's only intended for cheats and only transmits hashes back to Blizzard), remembered what Blizzard did to BnetD, etc. and all I can say is: "Screw you, Blizzard."

And I fully agree with your Prime Directive--it's my PC, and any software that refuses to respect that can stuff it. Blizzard software (as well as any music CDs like Sony's) to be in violation of our network security policy unless specific titles are vetted by IT (they won't be).

Ever since all this RIAA and copy protection stuff reared it's head I vowed to never ever ever buy another CD. I used to buy 300-500 a year.
Now, I have gone without. I hate those greedy mofo's. Vote with your money.

Regarding Mr. Hill's comment:

If it's not an audio CD, then it shouldn't be sold in the audio CD section of the music store. If it won't play in my Mac--and my car stereo--as a normal CD, then it's not what I paid for, and I'm returning it to the merchant as defective.

I've already avoided the new Dave Matthews Band album over just this issue.

Just stop buying cds and dvds. If you pay good money for isomething and cannot do with it what you want then why bother?

When this BS ever ends who knows. If I loan a screwdriver to a friend the tool industry doesn't trry to sue me.

Crap like this is why I haven't bought a CD since 1999. Don't intend to buy one ever again. And as far as iTunes or any of the other online mp3 sales go, screw that! P2P it! I don't give a hoot about the music industry, distributors, or musicians. Have you heard the derivative junk that has been released in the last few years. Absolute crap!!! Music piracy, like it or not, is here to stay. And BTW, it has always been here...remember the mix tapes of the 70's and 80's. Once the industry accepts it and focuses on actually producing a quality product instead of sleazy malware practices I might just buy another CD. Until then, K.M.A. SONY and brethren!!!

It would be nice to know what CDs are *affected* or when did they started with this nonsense. On the other hand, you can buy music from websites like magnatune.com where the files doesn't come with DRM and the musicians get half of the money paid.
The day Sony bought Columbia they make a pact with the devil and went from a good electronics company to a very evil media company. What a shame.

I read somewhere else that those Copy protected CDs will only run on computers which kills the use for them in the first place. Which will require people to find ways to record the music so that they can listen to them in the car and so forth. Creating even more music hackers. :/

"I simply won't buy CDs anymore. Period. From any publisher. And I recommend that you don't, either."

Idiot.
Had you bough a Mac in the FIRST place, you wouldn't be whining.

Since the crap you are concerned about only effects Windoze-infected systems -You MIGHT want to mention that little point.

I record streaming music and dont even mess w/ buying CDs anymore....you never know what is being put on your PC w/ any music CD....

WRONG!

The CD in question is an Audio CD.

Get Right with the Man
Van Zant
Audio CD (May 10, 2005)
Label: Sony
Format: Content/Copy-Protected CD
ASIN: B00092ZM02

It plays just fine in a standard CD player and on a Mac or Linux PC. Only Windows users are required to install "special" software to listen to the disk.

WARNING: there is more to this story. I loaded approximately 600 cds into 3 PC's these where all my PC'c. I own all this music on CD. All three computers have since crashed. They all would not boot and the cd-rom attacked strangely. One computer crashed a second time after being complete reformated with no music on it in the same exact way. I sent all 3 drives to WesternDigital knowing that the drives most likely was not the casue of the failures. All three computers contained my unprotected music collection. One computer had iTunes on it which i believe was used to steel the music but all users of this computer swore they did not download music or anything else or load itunes. I know believe this mal-ware my have been the door used to steel the music. It would appear not only has Sony sabotaged my computers (can you say class action) but they also may have created a door way into my protected computers. Anyone that has any information please email me.

What about Microsoft ? They do the same thing SONY does and nobody thinks it's a problem!

First off, sony is such a parsimonious company anyway. I'm sure they'll do whatever to get the money one way or the other. And this crap is just one of the ways they try to get it from us consumers. They are obviously are taking advantage of their own constumers. They always take their marketing practices way too far. And just look at their functionality on their electronics...boy do they suck. Altogether just boycott them and buy your music off of itunes. I'm sure Apple is way better than this. Sony is such a BS company--if they aren't I don't what is.

we just need to go back to vinyl l.p.s the fidelity is way better, more high frequencies, more low freqs. no record companies bitched when we made cassette tapes of our vinyl and passed them around. sure, they would bust the bootleg copy houses as well they should but they left home users and recorders alone. now days you can buy old vinyl (mostly in very good shape) for fitty cents or less. i think the artists themselves should start the move back to vinyl.

Actually you're wrong, it is an audio cd, with a separate data section that contains the album in WMA format. When you put it in your computer it tries to auto-install the sony software , to prevent your computer from playing the actual cd audio tracks. If you turn off auto-run for cd's you can avoid installing the sony crap.
On normal audio cd players it should work fine, and on a Mac or Linux machine the sony software won't work because it's windows only rootkit crap. And you can access the normal cd audio directly without being redirected to the WMA's.

I advise if you have one of their cd's to bypass window's autorun feature (just hold down either the left or right shift key when inserting the cd, I can't remember which) - extract the audio from the normal cd audio section and burn those uncompressed wav's back as cd audio format to a blank cd, so you now have a windows friendly perfect uncompressed copy, without sony's malware.

Better yet, only use Windoze to play games, and dual boot with a good linux version - (say Suse 10.0), and use that for a spyware/malware/virus free web surfing experience. Or if you can afford to, and don't care for PC games, use a Mac. Which in spite of being propietary hardware and software is at least secure, easy to use, and pleasant to look at.

While I certainly understand everyone's anger, don't be mad, have pity.

The IT industry has proven that any company in a mature market that is trying to hold onto an ageing business model in the face of disruptive technology and changing user sentiment has a high chance of failure. In fact, I even believe that the percentage likelihood of failure has been calculated. 100%.

This is absolutely outrageous.
Sony's lost it. It's dead.

Here is a brand that was once dear to consumers. It started going awry when it entered the media content industry and lost interest and vision in their core market.
Now they are stupidly trying to cling to a dying business model, antagonizing consumers along the way.

When a company starts seeing customers as enemies they have to defend against, the end is near.

Reminds me of Compaq.

Record companies do not deserve the power they have over such an important part of our life. the artist gets very little of the $ anyway. The other issue is CENSORSHIP. MTV and clear channel both said they would not air ANY anti-war music. Look at the power that music had on the movement in the 60's. If the powers that be wanted to suppress freedom of speech they only need to buy the media outlets (ie the music industry). STEAL ALL MUSIC unless you can donate to the artist directly.

Sorry Charlie, but it's you who are mistaken. It DOES NOT affect Mac OS X. This is directly from the SonyBMG FAQ page regarding their DRM CDs:

1. I have an Apple Macintosh computer. Will the disc work on my MAC?

Yes. This disc will behave like a traditional CD in a Mac.

http://cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/english/faq.html

Hey, iTunes ain't perfect, but you know what? Jobs is standing up to the greedy immoral buggers who run the record companies and telling em that you can make a lot of money playing fair with people, and giving them what they heck they want. The man gets my vote, and my business. We reguarly spend $20 - $50 a month on iTunes. And I really *like* not buying the whole album - I can purchase just the tracks I like, from artists I would not purchase an entire album from.

iPods and most other MP3 players give our good sound, though perhaps not studio quality. But then, most CD's these days sound less appealing than old fashioned vinyl recordings from the 70's. I find that iTunes sounds plenty good enough for most stuff, and I bet that Duetch Grammaphone and other companies will put their music on iTunes in lossless format sooner or later. If there is a demand for it, they will make it available for sale. Remember buying half-speed mastered recordings for outrageous prices? In fact, I still have about 100 of those - I should put them on e-bay. (*sigh*)

But like everyone else points out - stop buying SONY. That's the most effective way to make the point. As long as you are prepared to be attacked by congress critters eager to get some of that $$ Sony will be soon be handing out in political circles. Don't forget to vote out the congress critters who are so determiend to take our rights away from us. This used to be a free country, this nonsense is just one more example of how those congress critters are working really hard to take those freedoms away.

Well if this isn't a media hoax?
The owners of the online music possibly paid big bucks to ensure a report like this goes out, in order for them to win market share. Did we mention Microsoft. Do they want people to be anti-Sony just before the launch of their X-Box 360? There are so many players that will benefit from such a report. It all makes you wonder whether it was a put up job.
What exactly would this rootkit software do?
Seems to me Sony wouldn't derive any information benefit from installing spyware. Can you think of any reasons? What info do they hope to achieve?
This smells mighty suspicious.

The software is available for Sony to buy from the First 4 Internet company for Mac or Win platforms... I would guess it is being used for both. Linux appears to be the only "safe" option.

The author is right... they are driving a spike into CDs so they can attempt to regain control of distribution.

INMHO the best policy is to get to know some unsigned musicians at local pubs and have fun recording, distributing, and sharing their music instead of supporting the signed artists and the ugly tactics of their distributors..

Up and coming Musicians should sell their own music over the web and pocket all the money rather than supporting this bankrupt system.

Don't allow these corporate types to put the internet genie back in the bottle.

Jeff

Sony is opening themselves up to a potential class action lawsuit for damages if a hacker were to exploit the Sony trojan software.

someone needs create one of those petition websites with a paypal donation button. proceeds should be applied to a lawsuit...the people v. sony. if everyone interested contributed $1 i bet there would be enough to hire 10 Johnny Cochrans...even if they were all retired.

Dont get me wrong I am fuming mad about this but blaming the operating system is not going to help anyone. If linux was the primary operating system in the world you would at least 3/4 of the users in the market because they couldnt figure it out. People have enough problems using windows how are they going to figure out linux. Another thing is that if windows were not there poeple would be writing viruses for linux and mac more often, OS's that are actually less likely to be able to fend off a virus attack. Windows only get all these viruses because there are big and 94% of computers in the world have it. That means that if you write a virus you want to kill 94% of computers of settle for 3%-4% by attacking linux or mac. Just look at firefox the browser hailed for its secureity as soon as it hit 8% market share people started writing viruses for it and it turned out to be easyer for people to hack it then IE. (Disclaimer:Before you decide to hang me for sacralig let me just say that I use Linux and realy enjoy it and I refuse to use anything but firefox unless the site uses activeX then I dont have a choice. I am just pointing out that people really have a false sence of security just because a program/OS flys below the radar)

"Hey, iTunes ain't perfect, but you know what? Jobs is standing up to the greedy immoral buggers who run the record companies and telling em that you can make a lot of money playing fair with people, and giving them what they heck they want. The man gets my vote, and my business. We reguarly spend $20 - $50 a month on iTunes. And I really *like* not buying the whole album - I can purchase just the tracks I like, from artists I would not purchase an entire album from."

Here's an example of a brainwashed Mac-loving lemming. Yeah, it's neat to buy songs individually, but you don't really OWN them. You are granted a license to low quality digital versions of them and -if you purchase a whole cd's worth of music- you pay about the same and don't get a physical, official cd, album art, etc. Plus, if you don't buy an Apple branded product, GOOD LUCK playing all those iTunes songs. Yeah, I've heard the story of ripping to CDs and then converting back to MP3...but you lose all track info when you do this AND why should you be expected to do it?

The thing that intrigues me about your comment the most is that you only purchase certain songs and not whole albums...have you already listened to every song on an album? Surely the 30-sec. preview in iTunes can't sum up a whole song! So if you have already heard it BUT you haven't bought it yet, didn't you already steal from the music companies? If they're just songs you hear on the radio you're buying aren't you stealing from the artists by NOT buying their whole albums...not every radio-friendly song is good, you know.

My point is this: No online music, movie, content provider is good enough at this point in time to provide an all encompassing beneficial experience for consumers that would be so tempting and rewarding the thought of piracy would be sickening. I've bought of iTunes a couple times but I've downloaded and acquired many more songs in ways people think is illegal.

MUSIC AND MOVIE *AND GAME* INDUSTRIES are WAAAYYY to greedy nowadays. Consumers aren't the idiots they once were when they lacked the tools to do most hi-end stuff on their own and these industries just hate the idea that soon they may all be obsolete.

Really think about it folks --- do you REALLY think music and movie celebs and "blockbusters" will be as important as they were and are in 5, 10, 20, 30 years? NO.

Humans want more...and while none of these will ever go away completely, these forms of entertainment as honestly on their last legs. In fact, all entertainment may be. We may be evolving past it.

I used to a SONY fan because their products are cool - VCR, TV, Camdorder. Diskman etc.
But that was 3 years ago. I've been stop buying SONY product beacuse their business practice.
I simply vote with my money and not to buy their prodcut anymore.
This DRM thing is a taest of what is to come like the BlueDisk DVD. They are doing this is because all they want from you is your money, more of your mony.

Proof positive once again that Windows is for morons who don't know any better. Linux and Mac OS FTW

Also, PS3 will install a virus into your tv.

Infected by DRM...
Infected by DRM...
Infected by DRM...

thanks sony!

DRM has been on audio CDs since at least 2004. It is easily bypassed by holding shift when loading the CD or disabling autorun.
This is not simply because "windoze" hurr M$ is just inferior, it is simply the overwhelming majority in OS woldwide. Same reason why viruses are written for XP and not OSX, why waste your time writing code that will only work on 5% of all computers.

Here's a idea... everyone boycot retail music for 1 year. All labels, all companies. Support live music and go to a concert. Or buy a book and enjoy good read instead. New forms of distribution will probably evolve from the void.

I bought ... therefore I own.

This is about property rights. Sony is trespassing on my HD. Trespassers will be arrested and dealt with severely.

I certainly appreciate the entertainment business wanting to protect it's intellectual property, but not at the cost of infringing upon my own rights to exercise control over equipment used to house my own intellectual property. That is completely unacceptable and treats the innocent as if they were guilty, before any crime was ever committed.

The very first thing I do with every new compact disc I purchase is MP3 it, upload it to my media harddrive, back it up to an MP3 CD, and copy it to my laptops. These are all for personal use and as far as I'm concerned, as long as I'm not sharing them, Sony can kiss my ass.

Why don't these companies use memory based rootkit technology? When people don't want the software, reboot and poof! On insertion the disc would install it again.
Of course one could break the law and hold down Shift as they insert the CD.
Does this all sound ridiculous? That's because it is.
People will pay when they see value, and when they are constrained by their own sense of right.
No law can force either of those.

I haven't bought anything with DRM and I refuse to. Thing that pisses me off the most about DRM is that the assumption is that I am a thief/pirate. I am not, but if they keep on saying it ("You're a thief! You're a thief!"), I just might.

Those insulting FBI warnings on movies piss me off too. I am this close-><- to buying dvd ripping software just so I can FF through the FBI warning.

Some comments:
"If I loan a screwdriver to a friend the tool industry doesn't try to sue me."

But a screwdriver can't be in 2 places at once. As for a "backup copy" when I see a sale on those types of tools I buy 2 [or more: basement,main floor,upstairs]

As for the posting by 'something must be done'
wherein he says "petition website ... $1 ... to hire 10 Johnny Cochrans...even if they were all retired." **BUT THE GUY IS DEAD !!

The real answer, after reading the postings is
"these forms of entertainment as honestly on their last legs. In fact, all entertainment may be. We may be evolving past it."
--and-- (from another posting) ---
"Support live music and go to a concert. Or buy a book and enjoy good read instead. New forms of distribution will probably evolve from the void."

Ok, some people think there's only more viruses for Windows because more people use them? HAHAHAHahaha...
You've been drinking the M$ cool-aid dudes. There are more than enough bored losers out there who would love to mess up people's linux and mac boxes, if only it weren't so difficult to do.

Now, spyware and malware that you actually install yourself, say when some stupid music cd asks you to... That's another question entirely. If you install any program on your computer, in any OS, it could do all sorts of nasty things. It's the viruses/worms that windows has and Mac and Linux don't have. They just have far better security built into them from the ground up, which basically prevents unwanted viruses/worms/malware/spyware from installing themselves without you knowing it.

Until windows is a secure as Linux and Mac there's no way I'm doing any online banking, web purchases, etc on anything but a linux OS using firefox browser(or maybe on Mac, if I had one, which I don't.)

obviously yours - obviousman

This practice could be pursued through one of the anti-malware laws and acts, such as SPY-BLOCK. Though I have not purchased a CD since God knows when, I urge anyone who bought a Sony CD to file a lawsuit under every one of these anti-malware acts that can apply to Sony's practices. Even if the law is in one state, someone in that state should go after them and sue their pants off. Why hasn't the federal government stepped in yet to tell Sony that if they do not cease their behavior that they will no longer be able to sell their products in the U.S. and that they will persuade other nations to do the same, and that anyone who has bought an affected CD should not only get double or more what they paid back, but that they provide a free copy of that CD to the person who bought it and provide a program that can remove EVERY bit of the rootkit and not make us have to do it. They should also have to give a written statement that they will stop installing software like that and have to give several BILLION dollars to the state and federal government and our schools. These dirty practices will probably be the end of Sony.

I am in full agreement with obviousman. I think people should stand up for themselves and hit these companies in the pocket. This is the only way for these companies to stop violating our rights. If they feel the sting in their pockets they will put an end to this. I also will not buy any more products from Sony. I don't like companies that take the liberty of violating my rights.

hmm... after reading all this, maybe THIS is the whole conspiracy that should really be read between the lines here:

Sony and Apple have secretly joined forces! Yes, thats it! Sony is installing this secret crap software ONLY on Windoze boxes so that all the PC users will get so pissed off and finally SWITCH to a Mac!
And since Sony and Apple are such snobs for making all their proprietary BS, well... now they will hold a nice little monopoly again.

Think about it: all this happening just before the release of the new G5's with the Intel cores... (ok, maybe you should add Intel into the conspiracy too).... muuuhahahahah!!!@#!@#!@

As far as Mark Russinovich and Sysinternals is concerned, I installed Autoruns and found it trying repeatedly to send information to Microslop. An email to them was met with silence. So there's no way I'd trust them on Rootkit Revealer.

Just post a complaint:

http://cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/english/form11.html

Wow....lotta hate here. I actually enjoy most sony products and find them a very good value. Particurlarly their digital cameras/camcorders and vio notebooks. WHen I have had a problem customer service has been adequate.

I do not buy CD's so this issue will not affect me.

Anyway, just thought I would write to say that.

The irony of course, is the ignorant posts like "screw this, warez it on p2p dude!" make it clear that DRM like this is absolutely necessary to keep IP protected.

Well, I know that I won't be buying any Sony products from now on. They really shot themselves in the foot with this.

Actually, I deplore music downloading for free as I DO think it is stealing.

However, I will not buy another Song-BMG artists CD until I can be sure that I can listen to CD's I paid good money for on my laptop as I work without worrying about what may or may not be installed on my computer as a result. The last CD player I had in my office got stolen and I don;t plan on replacing it ... at least my laptop (and CD's) go home at the end of the day.

One thing that some of you may have forgoten about the law is:

"All citizens are innocent until proven guilty in court of law."

In this case, Sony had turned from "innocent" to "guilty." I do consider that "a software that installs into a computer without users' consent and getting a hold of the computer" is "breaking into somebody's property without the owners' knowledge and messing with their property" and that is against the law.

I'm so happy I didn't buy any Sony CDs with DRM. Any record company that includes a DRM in their CDs and distribute it no matter if it's harmless or maliciou: not for me. This means, if I bought a CD, I've owned your property, plus I will never share it over the Internet. I am a law-abiding consumer and I can never be treated as a criminal until proven guilty in court of law.

So if I am a music artist and started as a record company and if I am going to distribute a music in CD or DVD Audio, I will never include a DRM or any kind of protection in any kind as long as consumers don't be pirates. Thus, for DVD Audio, I don't want to require sound cards to turn off S/PDIF when playing back high quality content, again, as long as they don't be pirates. But I know there will be consumers that will be as a pirate but I don't want to screw up law-abiding consumers. In that case, I can never go too far in copy-protection. Makes sense?

Here's my question. Will you buy CDs/DVD audio from me as long as I don't incorperate DRM into any CDs/DVSs (honestly, I won't)?

Sony Online email form at:
http://cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/english/form8.html

"Wow....lotta hate here. I actually enjoy most sony products and find them a very good value. Particurlarly their digital cameras/camcorders and vio notebooks. WHen I have had a problem customer service has been adequate.

I do not buy CD's so this issue will not affect me.

Anyway, just thought I would write to say that."

simmons...if you own other Sony electronics, what makes you think Sony isn't backing up every one of your digital photos or saving info about your personal home videos on your computer, the internet or someother place without you knowing it? When the PS3 comes along, will it record the names and play dates of every video and song you ever listen to...will the Vaio laptops fail on purpose if you try and install competitor software on it (so it looks like they caused the hardware crash?)...really, you should be aware this issue DOES affect you.

I just hope the nation hears about it at least to the level of the Microsoft monopoly case or the coverage on iPods every two weeks.

Everybody is talking about Sony. Sony BMG is a friggin combo with Bertlesman. I guess you won't be buying any Random House books either?

Simmons probably works for sony, face it

sister: my computer won't work, can you help me?
me: sure... wow!, it looks like you've got multiple conflicts between the dozens of trojans, spyware, and adware apps running.
sister: can you fix it?
me: okay... it's fixed.
sister: where's my gator?
me: gator is spyware.
sister: but I want it.
me: it's a downloaded app that remembers your passwords!
sister: but I want it... it's too hard to remember my banking passwords.
me: I give up.

Sony will do just fine because most computer users are idiots, at least where computers are concerned. You are preaching to the converted here. If everyone that read this article refused to buy any CD or Sony product, and managed to convince a couple of others to do the same, Sony would still do fine. There is no shortage where computer idiots are concerned.

As for the Mac/Win/Linux bit... while Linux, and Macs as a result, are somewhat more robust than Win boxes, the real benefit is the market share.

The really dangerous viri, trojans, worms, and DRM around today are big businenss, state-sponsored terrorism, phising, or criminal protection rackets. Sure, there are probably a few punks slaving away trying to perfect Linux attacks but the big players are not going to bother with <10% market share. They're in it for the results and are not going to shell out money for competent programmers without real return on investment.

When Apple announced a shift to Intel chips, I went out and bought a minimac for just this reason. I figure I'll get a fairly long run on a web-browsing computer that uses an obsolete chip in an underdog OS. Maybe someday I'll have to install a virus scanner on it...

Still, no OS is secure if the person using it will click "Okay" whenever they're asked. I hate to say it but Sony's (et.all) position is quite secure, even if a lawsuit forces them to retreat on this particular issue.

Boycotting is a noble goal, but I'm seeing a lot of slight "I'll never buy a Playstation game again!" hyperbole here.

Sony BMG is only a part of the whole Sony corporation, much like Sony's movie division is seperate from its videogame division. In Japan, Sony's movie division recently gave the green light to porno movies for the PSP, which caused the game division to throw a fit. The decisions made by one division of the company are not neccessarily endorsed by all the others.

Now, it is quite possible that business practices in one division of the company may bleed over into other divisions, especially with growing concerns/paranoia about warez and pirating. It is also possible that the tactics used by Sony BMG have been cleared by higher-ups within the company. Not being privy to politics within the company, I can't say for sure.

But do you know what's really scary? It might not just be Sony BMG doing this sort of thing. Perhaps they were just the ones that got caught first. Keep your eyes open, people. If I know the MPAA, this won't stop them from pulling this kind of stunt again. They'll just try to be sneakier about it next time.

Flame on, boys and girls.

bastards.........how dare Sony think they can get away with this?? wtf were they thinking, that nobody would ever notice this sneaky underhanded behaviour? what is the world comming to these days.
shame on you Sony. shame shame shame.

WOW!!! i hope they get sued for that...

Good, boycott them. This way they can blame lack of cd sales on music piracy, because heavens to betsy there's no way it could be a boycott on them. I know you don't read these comments, but if you do read this one: Boycotts don't work because then it gives them weaponry to fight other silly things, such as music trading.

To all the Linux and Mac OS X fanboys (and girls), please get your facts straight! This root kit exploit was first developed for Linux / Unix so Linux and Mac OS X is *NOT* immune. The *ONLY* reason your computers are not effected by this DRM scheme is because Sony's vendor didn't care about developing software for your platform--which comprises less that 5% of all the desktop computers out there. You will have your day soon enough.

Well then, thats the dummest thing ever! Just when sony needs to be winning votes for the PS3 and for the HDTV market they go and alienate their customers. I used to be a Sony fan, back when the stuff was decent. I thought that the minidisc portable players were so cool, so I bought one of the top of the line $200 models. Worst idea ever!

I dont buy sony anymore, period. I always check the back of cd's to make sure that they dont have DRM on them, and if they do I dont buy them.

Conserning wal*mart music, just dont. They have many restrictions and they have very poor business ethics. I will not shop at any establishment that doesnt allow a union for their workers, and actively works at shutting the local union for their field down.

As for the diminished quality of iTunes music, I dont mind much. If you dont want to support apple for some reason (I cant imagine why, they are a very good business with ethics, and always treat their costumers well.) or dont like the iPods, use rhapsody or napster. I'm a music major and have perfect pitch, meaning that I can hear the tiny differences between the pitches in notes and I would rather have a slightly diminished quality than have a hidden program installed onto my computer.

As to the linux bashers, it is true that its not as popular on the desktop, but on the server linux is quickly outweighing everthing else on the market. You say that linux is only safer because its not as widespread, but I dont feel that this is completely true either.

Linux is built differently, you actually have to tell it to do something. Its built not to be able to have something going on that you dont know about. If you can at all, dont use microsoft. Mac OS X is so much easier, intuitive, and cleaner looking. Its like running a linux computer with drivers that actually work right!

As long as CD's bought in stores are able to play in personal CD players bought years and years ago, the CD makers will not be able to really secure the bits. It's as simple as that. If you look at all the "CD player" devices out there, some very heallthy percentage of them probably have no clue what an MP3 or WMA is.

CD started out as a raw unprotected format and basically has to stay that way, lest buyers return CD's that don't play on their players...

The fact that Windows makes it easy for automatically executed code to also be made part of the package alongside the raw audio data, is what has made this ugly situation possible.

Some comments:
"If I loan a screwdriver to a friend the tool industry doesn't try to sue me."

But a screwdriver can't be in 2 places at once. As for a "backup copy" when I see a sale on those types of tools I buy 2 [or more: basement,main floor,upstairs]

As for the logic of the comment that a screwdriver cannot be in 2 places at once. That may be a true comment, but according to the actual copyright statements in media such as audio and video products,...even the borrowing or loaning out of the products to someone else is illegal. Either way, the biggest offense is that the record labels automatically assume that even though I spent the money to buy the product legitimately, I am still a crook.

This is really scarey, I own a Sony Vaio computer- and I'm sure this Sony program is on my computer. I haven't a clue how to remove it- so I'm going to buy a Mac G5 and just Itunes to buy music. I'm no music pirate- but who knows what Sony has installed on my computer without my knowledge. It's not worth dealing with PCs or Sony products. I'll download my music from Itunes, atleast with Apple you know what your dealing with.

Sony, Universal, and the lables under them have been doing this for years now. They will release a "test" batch of CDs that don't comply to the RED BOOK standard (that the correct terminology) and see how the public (and the FTC) react. This will not be the last time. I urge anyone who has one of these CDs to file a complaint with the FTC. Demand a full refund from Sony for deliberately manufacturing a defective /destructive product. Please note: some of Universal's copy protected CDs are NOT marked as such, example "The Howling Wolf London Sessions" on the Chess lable(universal). If you try to rip it to HD, the 1st CD rips normally, when you rip the second CD it interacts with the 1st in the set to produce a corrupt file(s). It clokes some of these files, and will corrupt your database. All files must be removed in safemode to repair the database. If you rename the songs on the 2nd CD it WILL rip to HD normally, with no hidden files. Why pay for defective products? Boycott, and file a complaint with the FTC. Or do you like paying for tricks that bite you & your CPU?

Seems like this is another good reason to D/L pirate copys or "backups" of your music and software. If you have purchased a license for a song, you should be able to play it, when and wherever you like.

All I can say is this: Screw you Sony.

This goes way beyond simply setting a cookie in someone's internet files. Rootkit's are a violation of a user's OS. The sytem techs at Sony are trying to sell us on a legal hijack program. I would consider this illegal, yes?
Found a reply website to Sony:

http://cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/english/form2.html

oh people, come on!
the first time I encountered Copy Control, I noticed that the CD when I inserted it, started installing some software on my PC. It's logical, if you need efficient copy protection on a PC, some software needs to be installed. Anyway, I didn't like it, so I did what needed to be done to get rid of it, and didn't touch CDs with the CC icon anymore.
The music industry is only hurting themselves this way. This doesn't just go for Sony BMG, but for all music companies who use this system.

By the way, this SW does NOT come preinstalled on VAIO computers. Sony BMG and Sony IT are completely different companies.

Lucas almost succeeded in making VCR's illegal--fortunately he failed. This time around, with things like Microsoft's Vista with built-in DRM, the digital equivalent of the same thing may come into place, and actually take (except on the Mac and Linux, but they'll find a way to affect those OS's too). Analog recording formats may end up being the only option for a lot of people--but that's when the industry will stop selling any analog media. Remember, corporations have more rights than people.

ALL of Adobe's new software, and Cubase, and even tax software like TurboTax, and many other software titles made over the past 3 years, has had so much copy protection put into it, and usually protection that takes up processor time even when the application isn't running. Yahoo messenger installs a bunch of crap like the Yahoo toolbar which can only be removed by hand (you can't use add/remove programs--it doesn't actually remove it). These sorts of practices have become common and will become more common in the future. Sony doing this XCP2 crap is no different. Other companies will catch on and follow suit.

Artists don't make jack for money, unless they're rappers who start their own bling-bling b**ches and hoes get-your-roll-on type of record labels. Artists can't get too experimental or original--everything has to meet standards or they'll get dropped--just look at what happened when Joanie Mitchell tried to release her last album. Unless they're #1 sellers or are millionaires, they can't truly do their own thing--they're bound by the demands of the labels who pay them diddly squat.

When it comes to malware/spyware/intrusionware (I know, there's no such label as intrusionware), the only thing that will stop these practices would be a world economic collapse.

When the "new" or "modern" business models get shown as being as inhuman and unethical, as they truly are, to those that make over $100,000 a year, things will change. Until then, expect technology to become more and more intrusive, and expect the windows platform to become a giant study in sales, marketing, and demographics, and most importantly, a study in how much BS companies can get away with and still make profits.

No one here has even suggested what Sony wants off the user's computer.

WHAT ARE THESE ROOTKITS FOR?
WHAT INFO WOULD SONY USE???????

The blind assumption of some is that Sony is stealing all kinds of information, not only that but also overloading one's computer. But none of this is proven at all. It may be that Sony is verifying an online service or allowing easy access to one website.

Thus it is highly unlikely that it has any impact on one's PC's. The accusations here are not based on the facts of the matter, but are just knee-jerk reactions.

WHERE ARE THE FACTS FOR YOUR ASSUMPTIONS???

1.How much processing power does the rootkit consume?
2. What info does it send or receive?
3. What priority process is it?
4. Does it conflict with other processes?
5. What programs does it open, if at all?
6. How much time does it add to booting up, if at all?
7.What security holes could it create, if at all?

The facts of the matter haven't been discussed and as such these post constitute a mere grumpy reaction to a supposed invasion of privacy. This rootkit might even be an accessory for ease of hardware or online systems use. But no. Most are assuming the worst and spurring others on.

THE FACTS PEOPLE. THE FACTS.
WHERE ARE THE FACTS OF THE MATTER?

Use a PC running a Linux OS. Most spyware is made to install into a Windows system. Linux also makes your system safer from viruses, etc (notice I said safer, not safe. There are some Linux viruses but most people don't care to crack or attack LInux. I use Linux on my work PC because of the multitude of problems I had analyzing viruses which repeatedly attacked my OS (they were self-activating programs).

Personally, I love Linux, its tools and interfaces. And you can get programs that allow you to run Windows programs without the attendant Windows problems.

If you think you have spyware, try running some of the freeware programs that search for and remove spyware, such as AdAware and SpyBot. Run AdAware first, then SpyBot, since both seem to clean out different files.

Also, you can go into your Control Panel, go to Uninstall Programs and see if your system is running a program you don't recognize. You can uninstall any software on your system, then reboot.

Of course, the bottom line is, don't buy music from Sony. I will be careful to avoid them now due to this.

BLH
Virus/Spam Analyst, CyberSoft

Hey, maybe it's time to rediscover vinyl!!

"Is Sony Trying to Kill the CD Format for Music?" Yes, they are, and you're falling into their trap. All record companies and Microsoft are trying to kill CDs.

"I'd much rather buy an unrestricted copy of a song electronically, using iTunes, or Rhapsody, or one of the other music services" So would I. But those services only offer DRM laden, low-fidelity crap.

The /ONLY/ way to buy unrestricted music today is to buy a CD. The only thing that's changed is you can't use those CDs with Microsoft products. You can have all your CD rights with all CDs if you use an Apple Macintosh, a Linux machine, a Solaris machine, or a car CD player, or a home theatre, etc.

Stop using Microsoft Windows. Don't stop buying CDs or there will be no avenue for high fidelity, DRM-free music purchasing.

I guess the question you have to ask now is what other companies are using the First4Internet XCP software. This may be alot more widespread than we know at this time.

DAMN!

I wonder what that software does, cos a co-worker of mine was playing a new sony CD on her system and after a while, MP3's WMA's and OGG's were slowly disappearing...

Why do all these people on this sight think iTunes music doesn't sound as good as a CD? I think it's all in the head. I know people who have been in the music industry for years and cannot tell the difference. I know some of the data is lost in the compression process, but i think apple does a fine job at keeping what we actually hear. i think music on my iPod nano sounds better than a CD.

Given the right conditions and equipment, the differences become obvious. But if you are listening to them on a Nano with headphones, you probably aren't going to be able to tell much of a difference between a CD track and a compressed track. Now if you listen to them on a high end set of speakers like Martin Logans (speaking from experience here because I have a pair) being driven by a very clean source, it is clear that anything compressed loses a lot of the dynamic qualities you can experience on a CD or LP. There is a real, significant difference but you need good equipment to make it obvious to the casual listener.

I agree! Time for a boycott!

The reason that people think iTunes music doesn't sound as good as CD music has to do with what they play it on. On my computer speakers or headphones, iTunes sounds great. Put it on a really good stereo and the difference is obvious--the iTunes sounds dull on the better sound systems. I guess I will be using my Mac more for ripping now; can't risk my fragile PC. Thanks a bunch Sony.

Whatever they do to protect DRM, we'll hack it to peices, just give us time...

Another great reason to run Linux. My step son is always ripping his music collection to hard drive. Fortuneately I forced the kids onto Linux years ago after having to fix Win98 on almost a weekly basis because of irresponsibe surfing habits and bad email attachment practices.

Just for the record, this type of thing is very common. Have you installe3d an HP printer? HP puts a file on your system called hpqfrucl.exe. Its purpose in life is to put a survey on your screen. Didn't ask for it don't want it. Google the file to find out how to get rid of it. Don't forget to go into regedit to get rid of the traqcers there also.

This is a great way for sony to lose money and respect. all it does is make people go to file sharing networks and steal music for free. its agrivating a company like sony is not only greedy but sneaky. EAT SHIT SONY.

Virginia has laws that make the Sony protection software illegal:
? 18.2-152.4. Computer trespass; penalty.
A. It shall be unlawful for any person, with malicious intent, to:
1. Temporarily or permanently remove, halt, or otherwise disable any computer data, computer programs or computer software from a computer or computer network;
2. Cause a computer to malfunction, regardless of how long the malfunction persists;
Since Sony's software installs rootkits and interferes with other programs and can disable some they are guilty.
Anyone want to start a class action lawsuit?

Haven't any of you heard about the 35 million people downloading music for free? What about the millions copying dvd's for 28 cents a disc, what about the drastic drop in movie theater attendance, and the huge increase in home theaters, the film and music industry is seeing the end soon of the "good old days"-they have been charging too much for years and will now feel the result.cd's and dvd's are too popular to replace with any copy proof format and besides, in this digital world nothing remains copy proof for long-they better drop prices drastically & stop ripping people off at the theaters.

Here's the email address of Sony's president, Nobuyuki Idei, Chairman and Chief Executive: nobuyuki.idei@jp.sony.com

>>"Musicians are paid too much as it is - I think all the piracy and loss of $ is for the best in teh long run."

A PBS Frontline special last year revealed what many of us have suspected all along. - That the recording industry is NOT losing money at all to file shareing. Their revenue loss is simply representative of people finally being done replacing their cassette tapes with cd's. Just like happend when they were done replacing their 8 tracks. So their new tactic is the old one - replace the old format and make everyone buy the same music all over again on the new format. The future is this - CD's will go away. Instead all music will be DRM and played from your iPod/WMA portable player and your car radio will have a jack to input your player to it and play music from it instead. In like manner CD burning applications from iTunes and the wma programs will be disabled. CD-R's will become obsolete and DVD-R will be the new back-up harddrive device like backup tapes used to be.

All states need effective laws (Virginia has laws..) then let the Trial Lawyers make their money and punish companies like Sony.
Pressure needs to be put on Microsoft to prevent this kind of activity as they have some responsibility in all of this. Maybe the Lawyers can go after them to???

I see no reason to panic yet. Hopefully, stand-alone hardware cd copiers (not part of a computer) won't be affected, and cds released before 2005 should be fine too. Most of the cds I buy these days are not new releases anyway.

yea sony is EVIL.

hate them.

they dont give a rats ass about there customers

hate them

this doesnt surprise me at all

F Sony

I use Linux and I can Rip anything - Burn anything ( smug smirk ) thier pathetic root-kit won't worry me at all......

Here's a far better scheme -- just use watermarking, coupled with an intelligent legal strategy to enforce traditional copyright laws:

1. set up a pay-for-song-download web site with no restrictions -- any browser can be used to submit the payment info, and the song wil d/l in a standard format. BUT, the song will be watermarked with personalized information about the person dowloading it. That info will be encrypted, so it won't be a privacy issue, but the company will retain the keys needed to decrypt it. The user can make as many copies of their dl'd song as they like, anywhere they like, and the watermarking wilil be carried with it.

2. Monitor file-sharing networks, etc. for songs you're offering in this download service. For each copy you find (or some random selection of them), attempt to find and de-crypt the watermark. If you can't find one, or if the watermarked info doesn't correspond with the apparent owner of the file, then you have evidence of copyright infringement.

3. Every month or so, send out a large batch of "nasty-grams" (letters from your lawyers), say 5,000 or so, claiming copyright violation, presenting the evidence, and demanding payment of the fine. Here's the key: only do this for one, maybe 2 or 3 songs per person. Don't "go nuclear", and attempt to suck dry the life savings of some teenager by suing them over thousands of songs. Just hit them with the $50 or whatever for a single violation. This way, your company can be seen as being resonable, and the population won't resent you for enforcing copyright -- and therefore make them more likely to respect copyright in general. Most people will probably just pay the fine, and those that fight it probably won't amount to any greater legal fees than what the RIAA is paying for now.

Clearly, some bugs will have to be worked out. The biggest problem is that you can't offer your songs for sale on mass-produced CD's, due to the need for personalized info in the watermark. So this is probably an approach that will work mostly for new songs, which can be offered online only.

to mr "Steve_Jobs on Thursday, November 03, 2005, 04:59 AM (PST)"

For years I've fixed people's computers. The most frustrating element since '03 has been all the software that companies have decided is important to have running at all times, even when the application isn't running. Itunes does it, HP does it on their hardware, Epson does it on their hardware, TurboTax does it, ALL Adobe products do it--and it doesn't seem to matter how little amount of processing time it uses, when multiple companies are doing it and someone wants to have things like scanners and printers, messenger programs, and photo editing software, their machine is going to be slowed down. Without these piece-o-crap processes running in the background all the time, a 1.5ghz processor works fine for most functions. WITH all the piece-o-crap processes running in the background, a 2.2 and up processor is required to have any sort of sense of having a computer that seems to run efficient. When companies make it so you CAN'T remove their background processes without corrupting windows, like what Sony has done, it's inexcusable, and if Sony is allowed to get away with it, you better be assured that other companies will follow suit. THESE are the types of things that are requiring people to get faster computers now. It used to be that people had to upgrade for rational reasons, now it's just so intrusionware can run!

The other bad thing about the Sony intrusionware is that its ability to hide files makes computers at risk of getting viruses, malware, and spyware that uses the same sorts of filenames that get covered up--antivirus and antispyware programs won't be able to find them. Maybe you find that acceptable too?

If you find it acceptable for people to have to upgrade their computers JUST so they can run all these unnecessary background processes and for files to be hidden, then I really don't know what to say to you other than the fact that you're probably the type that supports the "new" business model that lets companies do anything they want. You're probably a republican who thinks that there should be no restrictions put on businesses.

As far as legal music downloads go... What I do when I download a group of songs from say, Walmart is to burn them to a blank CD first. Then I have the songs on that for whatever I choose.

I keep the burned CD as a master and use that to generate new CDs for my car or work system.
If the CD gets lost or stolen, no big deal just reburn it.

Just buy vinyl

To this point, I preferred Sony electronics products (all my cd players, game consoles, etc). This does it. No more Sony in my house.

all this whinning didn't help save DVDXCOPY either...

Remember all this whining about copying DVDs? It didn't help save programs like DVDXCOPY, even after 321 Studios launched a campaign to fight for the right to fair use, so I doubt it will help with Music CDs either... and our congress doesn't seem to care about the tactics by the RIAA, I doubt any of them even know just what the heck DRM is anyway, so your best bet is the quit voting for republicans and democrats, they don't care about us anymore, vote for the other parties, maybe then we'll get some real change in government.

a

Comparing Windows with Linux, Mac OS, or BSD is plain BS, the only reason Windows gets more attention is because it's most popular. Doesn't make it better or worse. If one of the other OSes were to become mainstream, then it would become the target for more viruses and malware. The virus/malware writers are going out for where they can do the most damage, they don't care which OS it is.

Only buy compact discs with the "compact disc digital audio" logo on it. EMI is doing DRM with Macrovision, Sony is using XCD - It all amounts to the same thing: These are not standard Redbook compliant compact discs.

The same fight is going on with open formats in MA. Nobody should be encumbered to use the stuff they buy or create.

A lot of pc users are idots. That's why autorun was created. Anyone with half a brain would / should have disabled autorun for ther CD drives. No Autorun, No unwanted software.

It's CLASS ACTION SUIT time!

These idiots at Sony have a huge problem on their hands. I know that I personally, aswell as many of my friends will boycott other Sony products that I used to consider of better quality.

If this is what "legal" CD's are going to start doing to my computer, I must say that I feel inspired to go learn the illegal ways to acquire music / software and how to crack anything DRM just so I can avoid that ****.

Thanks, Sony. You're probably creating a legion of new would-be hackers!

Exactly. Class action is the answer to these freaks.
No more Sony from me.

I would say that all hackers should target the Sony corporation and install viruses in their network. I am certain Sony wouldnt mind. Why? They started it.

People the next scam is the Blue Ray. I can see that the Blue Ray looks better than the HD, but Sony is the slimiest creature that will stoop to any depths, trampling consumers to try and make some money. So F**K Blue Ray and F**K Sony.

Whether or not Sony intentionally wants to kill off CDs is debatable. I'd say that they are for it. They'd probably like to kill off DVDs as soon as their new propriety next-gen disc comes out. There will likely be a format war between Sony and Microsoft's new next-gen DVD formats. Sony probably has another plan for replacing CDs in the very near future...perhaps to its new format? Or a brand new format? Then they would not only be forcing you to buy all new discs, but all new players to buy all those new discs with all those fun hidden files.
And frankly, I've always thought that Sony overprices their products. The only products that I truly like from Sony have the name "PlayStation". Of course, the PS3 will use that next-gen DVD format, too...I agree that Sony's sole drive is to leech its consumers of every cent it can.

I guess this shows why SCEI is the only part of Sony that keeps it alive. This really settles it, I'm sticking with Linux.

WHERE ARE THE FACTS FOR YOUR ASSUMPTIONS???

1.How much processing power does the rootkit consume?

It consumes roughly 3-4% all the time. It's checking file sizes 8 times every 2-3 seconds.

2. What info does it send or receive?

It does not send any info on the Internet.

3. What priority process is it?
Probably normal.

4. Does it conflict with other processes?

It installs a top filter on your CD-ROM driver. So, it in essence conflicts with anything that accesses your CD-ROM. More later.

5. What programs does it open, if at all?

It creates a bogus service called Plug and Play Manager. Question. Why are they lying?

6. How much time does it add to booting up, if at all?

It depends. It can add blue screens of death and make the CD ROM drive disappear completely.

7.What security holes could it create, if at all?

One big f***ing hole. Any file that starts with $sys$ or registry item that starts with the same is invisible. The Eastern European script kiddies are probably already writing worms that hide their payload.

Questions not asked:

1. What about MacOS and Linux?

While it is true that much of the protection these OSes provide are due to small market share it is not the whole thing. They don't require to run with adminstator rights. The copy-protected CDs act like we want in either of these OSes. I suggest that all Mac users help their PC friend by ripping with the lossless codec and burn a perfect copy without the rootkit.

2. What damage does this do independent of the rootkit?

A lot. As I mentioned before this installs a poorly designed top filter on the CD-ROM driver. It uses a technique that will break 64-bit Windows and the upcoming Vista operating system. It installs it as a safe mode driver so you cannot fix things with safe mode. There is no good clean way of undoing this. Merely deleting the driver because you see it in RKR or Blacklight will break things seriously. Your CD-ROM will disappear from your system.

3. What do you recommend to those who have already installed this on a PC?

Use the software to copy the WMP files on to your hard drive. Burn a CD with Windows Media Player 9 or 10. Or, find a friend with Linux or a Mac who can create a perfect copy.

After this is done, go to http://cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/english/form9.html

and request the uninstall software.

Just another reason why I only buy music from independent artists/labels. Screw the big labels and the crappy music they release. A big Screw You to SONY for infecting your product with malware.

I missed a step. You need to go to:

http://cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/english/form8.html to get a case ID for form9 mentioned above.

This isn't malware. It's really easy to uninstall. Yeah, right.

Charge Sony: I don't know, CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE or something that has a jail term attached, and force a total product recall, shipping costs included. That would make a few company's think twice before following suit.

What is the big deal simply switching th linux will solve the problem?

I hope this make people realize that the right choice in high definition is Toshiba HD-dvd vs. Sony Blue-ray. Get rid of Sony and Keep Toshiba
Bye-Bye Blue-ray.

I would never put a store bought audio cd in my computer, too many viruses...

Wow, there's over 150 comments.

Enough is enough...

I think PCWorld should close this down...

One word: eMusic.com

Check it out!

**** Sony!!!!!

Sony mentioned that folks haven't complained about the malware after eight months. My conclusion is that 99.9% of CD purchasers don't rip disks. I make a copy and store the original. If I lose or damage the copy, I make another, perhaps. 99% of people don't even make even one copy. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you Will. The numbers offered by the industry about lost revenues are bogus. People that steal don't buy, and people that buy, don't steal. I think sharing media is great to sample other styles. I don't have enough time to make downloading my life's work.
What Sony has proven is that people don't rip disks. Perhaps students with no money; descendents of those that jury-rigged a device to make free long distance calls and then found out they had no one to actually call.
The copyright protection debacle is morphing our culture where if media doesn't make money now and continue to make money, it's not worth saving and they will prosecute anyone that does try to save and share. All of the works of the Ancients should have been destroyed when it lost favor with the masses, and especially if someone couldn't make a buck off of it. Very sick thinking.
The industry has jumped on music sharing and exaggarated it's effect and then extrapolated it to all media.

Sony mentioned that folks haven't complained about the malware after eight months. My conclusion is that 99.9% of CD purchasers don't rip disks. I make a copy and store the original. If I lose or damage the copy, I make another, perhaps. 99% of people don't even make even one copy. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you Will. The numbers offered by the industry about lost revenues are bogus. I think sharing media is great to sample other styles. I don't have enough time to make downloading my life's work.
What Sony has proven is that people don't rip disks. Perhaps students with no money; descendents of those that jury-rigged a device to make free long distance calls and then found out they had no one to actually call. Most of the "stolen" music would not have be purchased anyway, so who cares. Just like the long distance device, you had it but you didn't use it.
The copyright protection debacle is morphing our culture where if media doesn't make money now and continue to make money, it's not worth saving and they will prosecute anyone that does try to save and share. All of the works of the Ancients should have been destroyed when it lost favor with the masses, and especially if someone couldn't make a buck off of it. Very sick thinking.
The industry has jumped on music sharing and exaggarated it's effect and then extrapolated it to all media.

Just more reason to stream music off the internet and store it free on your computer in digital format and never have to buy a CD or pay a huge corporation to put trash on your computer

I guess its time for me to boycott Sony products. I bought many of their notebooks over the past few years. Lately I have been disappointed that they are holding on to their silly overpriced Memory Stick concept. Now this!!! Its time for me to leave Sony for good.

Boo to you Sony. Good bye and I hope your firm dies quickly.

Don't we just love the hassleless and faultless P2P programs? *-)

Shame on Sony. I don't want any violation on any damn right. Sony is using its reputation for its own profit. I am not going to buy any sony products ever in my life. :D

Sony has violated the same laws that are used in prosecuting hackers and virus creator. They have damaged a private computer, they have also trespassed.

I will not buy any Sony products till I hear an apology from the corporation. Is anybody prosecuting this virus creating company? It is a shame.

Linux/Mac OSC/and other Unix based operating systems should be safe from the threat. Perhaps sony wasn't trying to ruin CDs but windows instead? Windows is a very poor operating system with far to many security issues. You have to wonder why windows has so much virus protection software that practically takes over your computer anyway. Even if Sony isn't trying to destroy windows, they should.

General SONY BMG: 212-833-8000
Let them know

Arista Records: 646-840-5600
SONY BMG U.S. Latin: 305-695-3600
J Records: 646-840-5600
Jive Records: 212-727-0016
RCA Label Group Nashville: 615-301-4300
RCA Records: 212-930-4000
SONY BMG Corporate Press: 212-833-5047

Posted by Bud on Thursday, November 03, 2005, 08:25 PM (PST)

Correct. They are counting chickens that haven't hatched - and never would have.. I'm not going to buy any CD if I'm only after one or two tracks. Even if I couldn't download the file, I'd just do without it. They ( RIAA) are including the price of a lost CD sale for people like me whe would never by it anyway..
They haven't lost any revenue by my downloading - I wouldn't have bought it anyway....

A lot of people are right about Sony always trying to sell their products as a standard for the market without after sales support or customer care. Years ago they could abuse us but not with the current intense competition any more.

I bought a Sony digital camcorder, smallest one on market 2 years ago and spent almost a year trying to burn home made digital movie off the PC onto DVD. Sony only supplied MovieShaker software to upload the movie into a PC. Period. They never bother to launch or sell or improve the MovieShaker for authoring to burn it onto a DVD disc. I sent a strong email to Sony and they said it's the customer's task. What rubbish! The camera is not cheap and now there's a lot of angry owners out there stuck with it. Guess Sony wants us to keep buying their tapes.

I've downloaded try out versions from Ulead, Nero, etc but they DON'T support Sony. How selfish is that?

I finally found CyberLink which is the only software company that supports this DAMN MicroMv camera. After much time and frustration. We think Sony should at least tell us where to go. They sure know what they are selling.

you guys are sad lol, go fuck yourselves and get a life losers...this "news report" sucks dick btw, gl in life people, ull probably die from a coronary in a year or two from something as lame as spyware making u this mad...

Not all are mad :) us Linux ( and Mac) users think its quite amusing........
It appears only the Windoze users are mad :)

This software installs on windows because that's what everyone uses. I have more pubic hair than there are mac users. Linux uses are the ones who write the viri and all the other underhanded stuff -- usually to prove how crappy and vulnerable windows is. go to europe -- that's all it is there. Some young punk who claims to know Linus himself using x-windows (how ironic) to write malicious code that will harm 99% of pc's out there.

Before you flame me, macs are cool but do you really think that they are immune to malicious software? If there were more Macs in use (as many as windows boxes) they would be as targeted as windows. Don't think your OS is immune -- it's just that there are not enough of you to warrant the effort of the viri writers effort.

Sony sucks. Period. As do all other music labels. I bought my last CD in 1998. I bootleg all my music and support the artists I enjoy through concert revenue, sales of gear from THEIR web-sites, and in some cases direct donations. You buy a CD and some A-hole in a suit is the one getting paid NOT THE ARTIST.

Just wait until every piece of content that hits your house is full of DRM... In case you didn't know this it is already here and will be on everything in 2008 (via your new neato HDMI equipped TV and a SONY HD blueray movie you just bought). You complain now, but don't realize digital tv is law in 2008 and digital radio is right behind it. You will NOT BE ABLE TO ESCAPE DRM.

Well well. Sony has fallen if they stoop to such. No more Sony, as someone else said, when it fails, buy anything but Sony.

This just goes to show the moronic level of their board of directors to allow this. Firstly they open up themselves to Class Action. Secondly, I have not personally bought a CD for a long time, because the average quality of music today is total crap.

Up the quality of the music "content" and I and others would buy CD's again. it is that simple.

If they are so worried about "piracy", why have they over the years sold items that make copies?????????

Strikes me the management team has to be changed at Sony, because they don't live in the real world apart from drawing large salaries.

Ok windows users - if you dont want the DRM thingy to detect your ripping program, just hold down the Shift key while you put the CD in. This should disable the Autorun and therefore the DRM software.

Thanks guys. I was thinking if I should buy a sony digital camera (DSC H1 ) or a canon ( powershot S2 IS) for this thanksgiving. It is a whole lot easier now. Just say NO to Sony.

Is there a comprehensive list of Sony CDs that have this rootkit crapola on them? I want to make sure that nothing I might have purchased lately has this egregious junk.

Maaan, its always been Sony. I come from a country where music lovers have always hated that name. They entered the country and immediately jacked up CD and tape prices, and rather steeply too. Others followed suit. Prices went through the roof until the magic of p2p happened. And suddenly, people found out how much they had been fleeced, when prices were dropped dramatically.

Seriou music fans follow an informal Sony boycott, but thats always limited by their collection and quality. But now, that boycott needs to be pushed with evangelical zeal.

I was also planning on buying a Sony digital camera this year, but I'm sticking with Canon now. I was also planning on buying a Sony LDC TV in the spring, and now I'll look for another brand. We have Sony computer monitors at work and they're great, but I'll send my money elsewhere.

A friend at work owns a Sony VIAO laptop. It's a model that has a design flaw that leads to the motherboard cracking. It's a well known issue (according to him) and Sony is doing nothing. His motherboard has cracked twice already and each time it's his cost to repair it.

It's a strange feeling because for most of my life, I've respected sony products.

We all have to buy on more CD. It is Requium by Mozart. To remember that once Sony was a ok company, but now it is DEAD!!!!!!!!!
Just make sure the CD is not made by Sony.
After remembering Sony, we have to go and file a class action. RIAA likes to use legal system.
Let us see how they would like it on the other end. After all their pockets much deeper !!!
Rest well Sony!!!
Rest well RIAA!!!
Rest well you all scum-sucking Record Companies!!!

The main difference with Apple's DRM is:

a) it's not hidden. They tell you exactly what it is and what it does.
b) if you do not like the terms of Apple's DRM, you can choose NOT to buy it and have several substitutes (admitedly, one of your substitutes is a WMA with DRM but technically, it is a choice) and of course, you can choose to buy the much higher fidelity CD track.

You can load a multitude of choices into itunes or the ipod - from a pirate mp3 to a purchased m4p to a CD track uncompressed, etc - everything else can be free of any DRM if you so choose including the extra steps of stripping DRM from m4p.

The problem with Sony's HIDDEN trojan is not just the hidden trojan app & files but that you have NO other choice to obtain such a high fidelity track!

Basically Sony penalized you for owning a PC and trying to play it in that machine and if you happen to own a PC and not a Mac, then to get a higher fidelity CD audio track, you have to record it in real time with some optical line in and then split the files and then convert to mp3.

Basically, we just have to hammer Sony and hammer them often by email and by mail. WE have to file a complaint with the FTC for their malware - I'm sure a class action suit would win. People need to ask Sony point blank - why is it copy protected when Mac & Linux users are completely UNAFFECTED? how much do they charge their artist or ask them if they want this? Why will they offer their Japanese and Austrailian artists only on the Sony store but on NO other store? Are they trying to raise itunes prices and now PC World has asked the best question - are they trying to kill the CD? And we need real answers, not just answers from some PR shill that we just blindly nod our heads - real answers. Sony desperately needs our business in plasma TV's, the studio and record labels and of course, the PS3 - in each note to Sony - ask them if they really want to tick us off and soil their name so we'll stop buying everything Sony especially PS3.

You're suprised? Look for articles about Starforce copy protection scheme. Very amusing too. Installs a hidden driver that causes blue screens and other error on many computers.(for sound blaster Audigy2 ZS users like myself for example) They even destribute it with demos, no less.

The Lumber Cartel (tinlc) gives Sony's XCP two thumbs down.

why are people so down with itunes? (yes i own one of those pods too) every time the software is updated (i.e. every week or so) you don't know what you are still allowed to do with it.
now if that doesn't spell EVIL PROPRIETARY COMPANY, what does?

Music downloads sound like crud on a high end stereo they are not worth a buck, but no way I will buy a copy protected CD. I will go the slow but free copying through the sound card method from now on.
I am boycotting all of Sonys other overpriced products as well.

"you guys are sad lol, go **** yourselves and get a life losers...this "news report" sucks **** btw, gl in life people, ull probably die from a coronary in a year or two from something as lame as spyware making u this mad..."

And here is your email you moron

ghettochild77@msn.com

Craig Posted:
"you guys are sad lol, go **** yourselves and get a life losers...this "news report" sucks **** btw, gl in life people, ull probably die from a coronary in a year or two from something as lame as spyware making u this mad..."

then linked his email:
ghettochild77@msn.com

What a total moron, just needed to make that clear

"Idiot.
Had you bough a Mac in the FIRST place, you wouldn't be whining.
"
You also wouldn't have any decent software for it because they don't make any. You would have also spent more to run a few programs very slowly. But 2% of the market can't be wrong?

Just remember all of this next spring when Sony comes out with Blu-Ray DVDs. Buy Toshiba's HD-DVDs instead!

Hm. . . if you read Sony's FAQ, it says that Apple doesn't wanna cooperate with them . . . Smart men, that Steve Jobs, I'd say. Yay for Bill Gates and easily hacked Windows. It's funny hearing all the 'if's' about the OSX getting affected if it were the leading OS. Fact is, it's not right now, I've had a Mac for over a year, and not a single 'spyware/hacking' problem. Compared to the once a month rebooting process I had with Windows XP. While all you Mac haters can say that they can be hacked to as well, they're not right now, and we live in the moment, don't we? As for Sony, I've always been a big fan, but their products have dissapointed as of lately. Especially the PS2, controllers stopped working (wasn't even using it as much), and it seems like the system slowed down. Despite all this, I can't imagine favoring Microsoft over Sony on video game systems.

Actually, the CDs are known as mixed mode CDs. To a normal cd player, they appear to be audio cds. A computer, however, will see the data and the audio on the disk, and install the software on the disk when the disk autoplays. The issue doesn't affects Macs and Linux because the software was written only for Windows- if it was written for Macs and Linux as well, it would be installed on those machines; they are not saved from infection because they are "better", but because so few people use them that it is not worth Sony et al writing software for them. If Macs ever enter the mainstream, the percieved advantages of Macs (no viruses, no DRM from Sony etc) would disappear overnight.

Its funny how the RIAA and these big companies have pushed the whole "its cool to rebel against authority" attitude in order to attempt to be cool and market their stuff. But now its come back to bite them on the ass. Sucked in to them, they are waging a war they can't win now. There will always be more hackers and pirates ready to rip apart any new system they implement.

From the moment CD's were introduced they should have been cheaper than tapes. After all they're cheaper to produce. But asshole record companies continued to screw over artists and consumers now they're sowing what they reap.

Haven't bought a CD since 2001.

Its simply terrible.. Too bad for such a respectable company to behave in this manner. After such things which publishers do u believe? Can you even blieve the software publishers any more? Even the giants like MS?

The next in the row of intrusion is going to be Blue-Ray or HD-DVD.

These publishers should realise that even though its important for them to raise the money from the sales .. whats more important is that we who have bought it have simply bought it and should have all unrestrictive right on the stuff we have paid through our noses for.

After a year of listening of these music cds .. most become trash anyway .. and they rot inside the shelves .. (thank god now the cd media dont rot). And above all when I have paid for the music I should have all the right to store it on my PC in whatever format I want for hoever long I want. I HAVE PAID FOR IT. IF IT BITES YOU THEN DONT SELL.

What's the grand publishers community who shout out at every breach of their rights doing about it? These guys should be taken to court (atleast for installing unwanted software on our personal PCs). Our PCs are ours "dammit" and now large corporations have come down to spreading spywares..

And its true .. absolutely true that these stuffs the publishers sells ... are overly overpriced. They take the money and give us spyware as gifts. Some kind of a joke.

DONT BUY SONY ... ABANDON THEIR PRODUCTS

Remember the simple days of cassettes and recordings. It was nice you owned it and you could make a duplicate copy to listen to in case your other was ruined now don't copy this don't download that restrictions infractions it seems it will never stop and only become worse. You know people have had the right to sing songs and play music for years. I wonder what it would be like if that very freedom was revoked because of big companies imposing their will over them by forcing them to pay royalties every time they practiced or sang a cover song. New up and coming small bands or artists just starting out in their very home because the equipment they used wouldn't allow them to do a cover song or they would have to pay every time they sang a cover song at a party or in their very home. Its sad to think that it has come to spyware and viruses disabling devices and not even being able to go out and get a new album from your favorite artist because your possibly gonna infect your system with an unseen virus that hackers might be able to manipulate in their advantage to take over your registry of your hard drive and make you another victim of whatever they want its just sad.
I would like to see this stop if possible the same way Big Companies made the Downloading of free MP3s stop but only Legislation gets anything done so unless somebody knows somebody its just tough luck. It would be good if a really enlightened musical artist was as outraged about this as consumers are and had a friend in the right place to have legislation remove this spyware that is hidden in the music anyway thats just the way I feel about it.

Sony got caught real good this time. I wonder though, how many other companys are doing the same thing and go undetected.

Good Question Jakob.

Gentlemen,
This is all moot now.
I just downloaded a utility called Horecorder for Media and all my DRM
problems vanished.
Best,
Ron

It may be moot for now but how long will it last before the next secret utility is unnknowingly installed on your system without your permission that can unknowingly put you at risk just for being a consumer of their products? Most retailers just couldn't get away with that type of business and not have repercussions. Not in the land of the free and the home of the brave anyway.

I for one will never buy a sony CD after hearing about this. For that matter I probably wont buy any other sony products either. This would be inspite of the fact that i own a mac and would not be effected by it anyway. It's just the principle of the thing.

In other news we can all thank Apple for refusing to up the price of songs like the music companies wanted them to. Once again sony wants to charge you extra without improving the product. Lucky for us downloaders, Steve Jobs publicly called them greedy and told them to forget it.

I do believe attributed to the principle of the matter at heart that the force of competition will win out in this matter. The one good thing is that there is competition for business and this will do one thing for sure and that is drive consumers to competitors who don't follow these type of practices. This will increase the competitors strength in the market allowing them to provide better services. It all boils down to a simple equation of supply and demand if someone has something you want you will buy it if not you will seek it from an alternative vendor.

This is reminiscent of some 80's copy protection schemes that drove a number of companies out of business. I think we should not limit our thoughts to the CD's but consider the business environment that allowed this scheme to go forward and what it might mean for other Sony products. I no longer consider Sony a trusted company and will look elsewhere for dvd players, TV's digital cameras and other products that I can find elsewhere.

Another thing to remember is this is a parent company and when there is such a large company as this they usually have sister companies and they probably follow the same guidelines as the parent company. This is something to think about for the consumers who don't want to purchase Sony products.

Has it occurred to you that this is exactly what Sony wants? If they kill the audio CD and replace it with DRM-encumbered electronic formats, you're going to eventually discover you're out of authorized computers for your iTunes songs. When a computer dies suddenly, or you irrevocably lose a hard drive, you have a "dead" authorization you can't get rid of. And you're limited to playing songs only on your Windows or Mac PC, or an iPod of some kind. Buying a CD let you have truly portable high quality mp3s. Maybe you've noticed the music industry made a fortune from people moving from tapes to CDs. They'd like to do the same, in perpetuity.

Why does the music industry think it can win a war with its customers?!?! And all so Sony can stop Sony music being written to Sony CD Writers, or played on Sony music players... Dumber than a bag of rocks.

agreed, with original article.

For all those people bitching about SONY and Windows. If MAC owned 90% of market share, I bet sony would be infecting your pcs as well. Installing software without your knowledge is illegal as some have said, and sony should be sued.

sony suck and always have... boycott them and help save the world....

Thank you so much for the info about sony invading our rights to privacy. I say no more sony products in my house anymore. Whatever happened to Company values? Oh I know, it got terminated for greed!

If you look closely at sociopathic personality disorders, and at actions typical of corporations, you'll find striking similarities (I know--done research into the mindsets of serial killers...)

Anyway, suppose the CD does go by the wayside. What then? Analog formats. The big companies won't put music on analog formats? F 'em. Plenty of musicians will. Musicians that are young and hungry and make music because they love it. Local bands. Talented individuals. The tech is there, anyone can be their own production company, and can reap all the profits of their own efforts.

The death of the CD is the death of the corporate usurpation of popular culture. Let the CD die...CD, as in Corporate Distribution. Let the artists make their art, let the people appreciate their art, and show their appreciation by paying the artist for their work, as opposed to paying bean-counters and three-martini-lunch salesmen who couldn't play anything more complex than Chopsticks or maybe a chromatic scale.

Sony and the RIAA don't want consumers screwing artists. Why? Because that has traditionally been the record companies' job.

Re FixerDave's comment: "As for the Mac/Win/Linux bit... while Linux, and Macs as a result, are somewhat more robust than Win boxes, the real benefit is the market share."

Mac's security is not a result of Linux. Mac is not derived from Linux. Both are derived from Unix. And, for what it's worth, Macs had no problems with viruses, worms, or spyware even before OS X came along (i.e., when Mac was Mac).

Zeph wrote...

"Windows only get all these viruses because there are big and 94% of computers in the world have it. That means that if you write a virus you want to kill 94% of computers of settle for 3%-4% by attacking linux or mac. "

Sorry, the "security through obscurity" argument only exposes how little you know. For example, Apache Tomcat has a more users than all others combined. IIS (microsoft product) has 5-10% of the market but has the OVERWHELMING majority of the vulnerbilities.

When it comes to this oppressive DRM voodoo... MS and SONY are squarely to blame!!!

Ah, more proof that it's easier, faster, cleaner and safer to steal.

I prefer paying the artists directly. FSCK SONY et al.

does downloaing "quick time-i tunes" install this the same as inserting a CD does?

Before CD's came out, everybody recorded music onto cassette and reel-to-reel. No body ever complained about the quality of the recordings made by these machines. CD's were more convenient than anything else. How many people actually take advantage of the 90db dymanic range of a CD compared to the 45-70db dynamic range of a good to excellent magnetic media recorder. Play a CD in a high end system using digital inputs on a quality digital to analog system and record your music to something like this and play-record it back to digital. I challange anyone to tell the difference by listening if done properly. Obviously this is more work than just copying a file but no copy protection scheme anywhere is going to interfere with your making copies. If you really want to take revenge against Sony, find an older Sony VCR that has PCM audio recording. Almost the same specs of a CD, immune to any digital copy protection, and was manufactured by Sony. There has to be just at least a little satisfaction in using Sonys older high-tech equipment to thwart their current efforts.
As far as Mac and Linux immunity are concerned, keep in mind that a CD has a finite amount of space and even Sony would prefer to fill a CD with music and not software. Sony merely chose to go after the most significant base of users - those with PC's. Before the Mac people start yelling at me, I have a mini-mac too but most of my computing is done on a PC.

in reply to jay emm:
by "while Linux, and Macs as a result,..." I meant that Mac OSX is, in simple terms, the proprietary shell Aqua running on top of Darwin, a linux distribution. OSX is linux as far a security is concerned.

in reply to corndog:
You actual prove the point - while I don't disagree that IIS issues many more patches for vulnerabilities, linux/apache - being the dominant player in the web server market - is a target for hackers and their administrators do have to take security seriously, unlike the "I don't have to worry because I use a Mac" head-in-the-sand crowd.

On the server side, there is much to be gained from going after linux/apache, even if it is harder to crack than IIS. On the client side, market share and vulnerability combine to make PCs the target of choice, leaving linux/Mac users off the hook, at least for now.

But, getting back on topic, one thing bugs me. This Sony DRM thing does ask the user to agree to a license agreement does it not? If you just say No, can't you continue on and listen to the music? If it doesn't ask then is not Sony then giving away all rights to said DRM scheme? Would this not then violate the agreement between Sony and whoever wrote the original code?

Just curious.

David...

Give me any CD of any kind, and I can copy it! If it plays in a CD player, it can be copied.....period!

Mark D

Reply to a couple of lines of nonsense.
1-Darwin IS NOT LINUX. It is a hybrid variant of FreeBSD Unix with the Mach Microkernel.
2-The DRM CDs work just fine on a Mac.
3-Rip the digital audio out from a standard CD player into a computer recording app. No DRM. Full quality.
4-Sony knows what Fair Use is and is trying to violate it's long established standard.

Class Action Law Firm Investigating Sony CDs:
My law firm is investigating the situation surrounding ?rootkits? on Sony-label CDs. In connection with our investigation, we are interested in learning more about the experiences consumers have had with those CDs. I can be contacted at (212) 239-4340 or, by e-mail, at tciarlone@lawssb.com.

At least sony still has great 50inch plasma screen tv's.

Sony buys its plasma TVs from Korean manufacturers, puts them in their own cases and sells them for more money.

Get this, The town I live in got a bill from the RIAA stating that we should pay them $300/yr for the rights to their music. Their examples are that our High School band plays music, or a local band in the school gym or at a summer town picnic etc... How absurd. What nerve. I instructed the mayor not to pay and tell them to first prove it in court.

Sony has been screwing the public for TOO many years. They created the Beta players, remember those?? and then cut it off to the cost of how much to the public? Then the 8mm for cams of which they didn't pursue the players, other than in half-measures. Now they create spyware, DESTRUCTIONWARE, that would have any OTHER company put out of business and their heads of office arrested, but get away with it?
BOYCOTT SONY products completely and DEMAND of them repair to your computers in the form of a replacement computer for their DESTRUCTIONWARE !
I have tons of CD's that I like to load to my computer to listen to, bought and paid for and the fact that their product has destroyed my computer drive by eliminating my CD drive is unforgiveable!
I hope charma bites them in the butt in the same way that they have, purposefully, destroyed our computers.
Shadow Walker

They didn't bother making the software to screw with mac's or linux, what's the point to piss of 1,000 people, please. If mac or linux was widely used like windows the same problems would exist, I am a hacker myself and I wouldn't bother screwing with a mac or a linux box, because it is a waste of time. Sony SUCKS, not Microsoft.