The Software That Thinks It Owns Your Computer

I install QuickTime and RealPlayer on all of my systems and have yet to have a problem. All you have to do is uncheck the options you don't want. I still have Winamp and WMP handle my default media types, but QT and Real handle their respective types. I've never had a problem with either "taking over" my computer. Come on, people, pay attention to what you're doing and you won't have a problem.

remove windows, install linux and use yum/apt/emerge to handle installation and uninstall of programs and you wont have this problem

About programs leaving traces in the windows registry, simply download a registry cleaner and run it like you run a defragment. That'll fix it.

Thank you for this post. I am constantly having problems with this sort of thing, worst of all with Hewlet Packard, and Lexmark printer drivers.

I have a laptop and I don't need the drivers from my home printers to load up every time. I have to manually remove them. I know something about how to do that however. A typical user shouldn't have to do this, and the companies that do it should be put on notice that this practice is harmful and unacceptable.

Unfortunately it seems as if almost every product out there has this problem. In my opinion it wold be easier to list the few that don't install items that start up every time you boot up your computer.

I am glad this was posted, I only hope that an awareness of this problem can grow and we can get developers to recognize how it is harmful, and stop it.

I never install RealPlayer after its near-spyware-like invasion of everything media related. This was many years ago, but back then it didn't matter if you said you didn't want it to be associated with every media type. You couldn't even tell it not to re-check for file associations every time you opened the program.

Frankly, I don't even care if a program lets you disable its default action of checking for updates or file associations. If being annoying is the default action, it's not good enough that it can be disabled.

Norton Antivirus! I got a new computer recently and it was preloaded with NAV. I thought I'd give it a try as I'd used Norton in the past. 30 minutes later as it repeatly refused to let me access my network, I tried to uninstall it. I tried various uninstall methods including msconfig and it still stuck leech-like onto my system. In even hacked away at my registry deleting all references to Norton, Symantec etc.
This took out my computer as well so had to restore everything. Eventually found a program that unistalled it automatically and now I use AVG.
And as for pre-installed AOL9 & Windows Messanger.....

While Phils response may seem to have been knee jerk, there are times when Windows could be likened to "arroware".

For example, it is fairly trivial to move a users entire profile to another directory under linux, in windows - it is an uphill struggle, especially with "local settings" and similar ones which insist on being only allowed on the boot partition, and yet grow quit large as every program tries to store its settings there.

Even more annoying that these are not stored in a roaming profile.

There are also many unwanted windows components which are difficult if not impossible to uninstall, and take up both drive space, and sit running in memory even not wanted. Try removing outlook express one day - you will be picking registry entries out your teeth for the next few months, and it also has a way of coming back, even when you have its bigger and much more capable brother Outlook installed. It is possible to hack the ini file to add it to the "windows components" installer, like many apps, but its not gone when you uncheck it.

Lets hope Windows Vista is much easier to customise, and for an admin to dictate where things go.

Those above who say it's not a big deal don't really know what's going on in their computer.

What about all those programs that load on boot, just to check that your serial number is still legal! Not to mention any program with a subscription.

My boss bought me ScanSoft PDF Creator. That program only lets you install it five times, and then it's a brick. If you buy a new computer, there go four of them. But the way it does this is that every time you turn on your computer, it checks its serial number against the server! So for those of us who rarely use it, we have a program bogging down our resources; and when we clean it off, the program quits working; and when we reinstall it, it counts against one of those five installations; thus demanding another $70! Well, let's get one thing clear, ScanSoft won't get another $1 from me in this lifetime...

hm...
Though I agree that many legitimate softwares are "arrowares", most _do_ have a switch - may be deeply hidden. For a normal user they are really a pain in the tray. Unfortunately, a lot of users do not have local gurus to help them out and "enlighten" them...

Norton Antivirus has to be by far the most arrogant piece of crapware I've ever seen. You'd think after a 10 minute uninstall, everything's sufficiently wiped clean, and then you find 95% of the program still there with only the indicators to the existence of the program removed. Removing those files result in things just breaking down randomnly.

For instance, after manually removing all Norton related registry settings, I rebooted only to find my Internet connection mysteriously unable to connect. A call to my ISP tech support followed by 6 hours of self troubleshooting, I finally found the problem: the DHCP Client had been set as dependant to NAV and when I had got rid of the files, it broke the dependency. So I had to manually reset the dependencies through the registry because the NAV related service is not visible to the user ever except in the registry.

I now use NOD32 and am much happier. Someone needs to make a better uninstaller for NAV and Symantec owes me compensation for the lost 6 hours of my life.

As one who installs 30-40 programs a month (mostly trials), I am particularly annoyed over this arrogance. I don't care where a program puts its icons, as long as is ASKS and gives ME the choice. Depending on the program, I will remove some software immediately if it puts icons on my desktop, Quick Launch bar, top of the Start or Programs menu or if it sets itself to autostart with Windows or steals already set file associations. Other programs also want to put links in my Favorites folder and things like that. Disgusting.

I have managed to actually get a few program publishers to modify their setup program because I sent them a POLIITE email message telling them about this.

As for Real's software, I haven't installed it in a few years, but last time I did, it didn't matter what you checked or unchecked, it still set itself up to do things it needn't have done, without permission, and QuickTime does the same. Some Microsoft updates do it too, such as putting fresh icons for the Windows games and media player in default locations, thwarting my customized menu system.

I use an uninstaller program that takes "before and after" snapshots of my file system and registry, but after paying for the program, I find that even that program is not as thorough as I thought it was. I don't see how it's so hard; ANYTHING installed or changed in between the snapshots should be completely undone when asked, but alas, the program does miss more than it was worth it to pay for. It's better than nothing though.

And to address the "deeply hidden" switches argument, where in a setup program can you "hide" a switch? It's just stupid programming, that's all.

Symantec GoBack... It installs and gobbles up over 5 GB of your hard drive in less than five minutes (with a BIN file and EXEs). Now try imaging with Ghost 9.0 and you'll find you have no room for an image that fit easily every week prior to installing GoBack. So you decide to uninstall GoBack only to find it won't. Instead it spreads to another physical drive with an even larger BIN file. It won't allow you to delete it. Uninstall runs for three hours and never quits or completes. In the end, it destroyed all my data (45,000 JPEGs) on the other physical drive. I had to reimage the boot drive. I'm still trying to salvage my missing data. To me, GoBack is worthless. One of those programs that takes control and knows not how to relinquish.

Microsoft Word. Its default install assumes I want to be corrected while typing. I hate automatic formatting of lists, auto-corrections of capital letters, and most of the other correction "features".

Windows Messenger...I don't know how many times I've unchecked it using msconfig, and it just keeps showing up again in the system tray. No, it's not my wife doing it, neither of us use instant messaging programs.

find the windows messenger folder in your program fiels folder, and change the name. That way winXP cant find it and reinstall it.

and for Phil who says to use Linux: shut up.

Norton's got an removal tool. MS beta antivirus has a startup programs editor function that'll let you block or remove items from the startup....plus I have found very few programs that won't let you turn the startup/system tray option off.

I installed Logitech's MediaLife along with mouse and keyboard software. Now it refuses to uninstall, falsely claiming every time that other users are logged on to my computer and that uninstalling this might result in damaging them. I feel like I have an unwanted squatter living in my computer thumbing its nose at me.
Help!

I'm hoping to see anti-arroware products in the future.

Think goodness I never have any arroware programs installed in my laptop. I do my best to secure my laptop using anti-adware/-spyware/-virus protection and hardware and software firewall.

Anyone speak Hungarian - I have an ATI program that wants to load every time I boot - but all the dialogue is in Hungarian (thank's Google for the translation of Sfotzver"). Not necessarily ATI's fault but rather Hauppage who's USB TV software caused utter chaos.
I recommend Registry First Aid - it certainly deals with Symantec curses.

WEBROOTS program CALLED WINDOW WASHER
Every time you run the program it loads 2 files in start up. Have to use Startup Mechanic every time to stop its loading porcess in windows. You can't use the program without it loading its self into your start ups.

Symantec, Real, Scansoft and Quicken have obnoxious tendencies and unacceptable features, but let me add Incredimail to the list. Even when you pay for it, any disruption to your system from hard drive failure to virus removal can leave the paid program unuseable and Incredimail looking for another payment.

Customers do not have to accept this from anyone. Simply say no and walk away. Let these companies know your feelings, give them some time to address the problems and if they do not, shun them and report the problem in these forums. The computer software hotshots may think they own our machines because of their license agreements, but they do not. You might also advise these companies that when you buy their programs, you want to own them, or you willl go elsewhere.

These companies ultimately have no power to resist the aggregate demands of their customers, but will only retreat when they clearly get their customer's message. Let's all send them a clear message on these complaints.

I tried to install mozilla to see how it works, it messed up my isp and rearangee my software, it also installeed lunux. does system restore deal with any of this? I says it is preserving my installed programs? I use system mechanic, is this a reliable registry system cleanup?

thank you for your time.

sharon fleming
afleming101@att.net

Also what do you thing about "people.com?

One of the worst arroware adds 'trusted sites'. If you are using Internet Explorer, check Tools>Internet Options>Security Tab>Trusted sites. You might find that there are Trusted sites in it which you did not add.

I have the software in mind but I can't confirm it as now, I have Spybot resident running so I guess it prevents the program from adding the trusted site without my approval or knowledge.

I recently bought a logitec webcam for live chats. All I wanted was the camera and the driver so my computer and chat programs could recognize the thing... However, the installer offered no custom instal options and by the end of a half-hour instal, it had installed so much junk along with the driver (200 Mbs worth!!), recalcitrant auto-loaders, and shortcuts that I am too angry at it to use it!! All I wanted was a driver!!!

A fix for messenger is to diable it in Services. It will no longer be in Startup if you diable it. I did that to my laptop long time ago and my desktop that I bought this spring. Services is located in Adminitrative Tools. When you're in Services right click on Messenger and left click Properties. Where it say's Startup type: choose Disable in the menu. Hope this helps out

There are a lot of obnoxious Windows apps:

When I installed the software that came with my Creative Audigy sound card, it searched all my hard drives and relabeled every audio file to a "Creative Audio File" with a single icon. Now I have to go to "properties" to see if it's a WAV, MP3, etc.

Every image processing app I have tried to use [HP printer software, Photoshop Elements, Picasa, several digital camera CDs] has tried to take over all my image files and "organize" them. GIMP is the only well-behaved one I've found.

any one tried roho it offers a trial for a logo. i tried it and after fighting with it for 40 days - the trial period- my machine froze up big time. i had to reformat to remove it.

What amazes me are all of the people who complain nonstop about how these programs are, "Taking over their computers." It's total crap, and here's my take. If you don't vote for the president, you have no right to complain...and if you don't pay attention to software installs on your computer, you also have no right to complain.

My problem is with Atomic Clock. When I uninstalled it, it disable my PC's clock. Now the only way to obtain the current time on my PC is to either set it manually, or get another utility to update my PC's clock each time I turn on my computer.

Is it possible to get my PC clock to work the way when it came out of the box?

Hey hey hey....

the only thing worth using Windows for stuff that works only for Windows, namely most computer games. Everything else, use Linux or Mac for, because they definitely dont suffer from as much as windows users.

Now......

if only you could run 2 OSes at once: run part of Windows so that you can play computer games, and run part of linux to manage the internet connections and make sure nothing gets screwed up.

sigh....

Certainly the above issues used to be the bane of trying something new software-wise. However, my current gripe has been the excessive use of svchost.exe and rundll.exe . Several important drivers you install can be of this ilk, but policing them is a pain. Is that rundll.exe for your video card driver? Which of the svchost.exe is your dhcp client?

YAHOO! Messenger, nuff said.

After reading about this mess, is there by chance any kind of software, freeware, on-line purchases that might offer a program thats definatly unistalls whatever you throw at it, not counting viruses of course.

I suggest you add "Add Ons" to your list of arrogant software. I suspect they are being brought it under the consumer radar.

I'm planning an OS reinstall for October 26, 2005 when my Norton Antivirus 2005 subscription expires because I know that's the only way to avoid future problems. I WILL NOT renew or ever have another Symantec product because NAV always wants to connect to Verisign to make sure I'm not a thief. Nothing on MY computer should EVER try to access the internet unless I want it to! And I tell EVERYONE to avoid Symantec and Norton products.

It is amazing to see so much trouble everyone goes through. I have had trouble only with Windows Messenger and getting rid of it took only two minutes. QuickTime is giving me no trouble. Never used Real programs. I am usually careful of what I install. Using Norton Antivirus 2004, uninstalled it once because of a driver clash, no probs. And some programs are better loaded in startup, like a firewall and antivirus. Just be careful what you install.

McAfee AV seems to border on adware the way it wanted to have me run all of it's other "components". That program, like the Comcast account, is history.

I dumped Realplayer years ago when it did it's classic "my files now". Mediaplayer Classic seems to have taken care of any need for it or Quicktime.

Another one seems to be Sony's Everquest.(altho it seems to be Sony policy to be arrogant) The program seems to have a habit of trying to "phone home" on some very interesting ports. BTW, Sony's "support" will either play dumb or totally evade any questions about it.

I like Kaspersky ,It's cool : )

I live in Thailand where I can try out ANY software program thats been cracked for a few dollars,all the AV's,spywares,apps.As the majority of posts state,they install so much junk and bog down your PC that I now only use free apps,AVG,Zonealarm etc.
Never looked back.
To hell with the big names and I recommend everyone go for the freebies,as good as,if not better then the paid variety

i never install realplayer, quicktime, or norton antivirus. alternatively i use media player classic and kaspersky.

Stay away from anything by Symantic. There was a bug in Quarterdeck that has been on my machine for years, I've done the work around to get rid of it, but it's still messing up my machine. All the time lost because of them.

I sympathize with the anti-Symantec sentiments, having gone through a painful process attempting to remove Internet Security from my wife's computer.

It's more difficult for some users to avoid these products, though, because idiot administrators at the office install products like Norton before you can get your hands on the computer, assuming that users know even less than they do. When I received my new office computer, I had Norton, an outdated version of Office, and several other useless and intrusive programs installed.

It took me almost a week to get the computer into good shape with the Mozilla products, Black Viper's services adjustments, CounterSpy, my favorite Word alternative (LaTeX), and backup/imaging solutions. By the way, don't buy into the hype about Acronis True Image- even imaging between two identical internal hard drives created immediately corrupted images. I ended up choosing Casper XP 3.0, even though it's not as flexible.

Forget software arrogance- how about administrator arrogance (I'm talking about incompetent ones, of course)?

Dear Lincoln,

By time someone classed these programs as "arrogant". You forgot my ultimate menace, MusicMatch Jukebox. It tops my chart of arrogance, closely followed by Norton Internet Security. I alternatively use Winamp and ZoneAlarm.

If I have to install, QuickTime and Musicmatch, I delete its entry in the "run" section of the registry to prevent it from starting when by PC boots.

Thanks for this article and for opening this topic, Mr. Spector. Long, long overdue. You've done us all a favor.

I almost never check on an unflagged audio file, as it might open the dreaded RealPlayer and force me to dig into msconfig.

Thanks for this article and for opening this topic, Mr. Spector. Long, long overdue. You've done us all a favor.

I almost never check on an unflagged audio file, as it might open the dreaded RealPlayer and force me to dig into msconfig.

Thanks for this article and for opening this topic, Mr. Spector. Long, long overdue. You've done us all a favor.

I almost never check on an unflagged audio file, as it might open the dreaded RealPlayer and force me to dig into msconfig.

Thanks for this article and for opening this topic, Mr. Spector. Long, long overdue. You've done us all a favor.

I almost never check on an unflagged audio file, as it might open the dreaded RealPlayer and force me to dig into msconfig.

Please post once. Just wait for the page to come up.

Thanks for starting this topic. I enjoy threads like this because of the inevitability of the "just run Mac or Linux and you won't have a problem" responses. Thanks Phil and Anonymous...I'll take your advice and see how many nanoseconds before IT shuts me down and I'm booted out of Corporate America for good (especially since my employer fittingly rhymes with "Hell")

To uninstall Norton anti-virus was a nightmare. Even my resident geek couldn't do it. I bought Uninstaller -- no luck. Finally the beta version of the latest Uninstaller came out and it removed the Norton so I could install something else.

If you're all suffering with Qucktime and RealPlayer, get Quicktime Alternative and Real Alternative from http://free-codecs.com/ and you'll never have to worry with them again, and you'll be able to play QT and RT files in WMP. If you're suffering with Norton AV and McAfee, Get AntiVir, AVG or BitDefender (Google it!). Sonique(2) and Winamp are good free media players. There's a better, free alternative to just about everything...

I had to say that all the troubles that "Real serials" give you are not the Real trouble. During the installation, most of the users use their default setting instead of setting it by their own, so Real (or QT) will consider itself the only player of the computer for sure, and it will link all the type they know. Make sure you've seen all the notes and buttons before you press "Next" button.

Norton is the worst of worst.System Mechanic could not unistall and could not install mcafee because Norton would'nt let it in.My new Hp note book comes pre-installed with Norton suite I have'nt activated it and used glary softs Quick Start up Utility to disable it at start up(it shows as running even though I didnt dare touch install or launch - didnt try to uninstall...you know the story).Well down loaded and tried WinPatrol and tried disable auto load & run process system crashed with a blue screen every time. I am very upset and will never buy or recomend Norton or Hp computers which come pre-loaded with the Norton Trash. Hp Norton are you listining?

Window Washer is tops one of the most annoying arroware I ever encountered. It tries to load into your boot registry everytime it cleans up your file and internet history. What a shame for such annoying products. Yeah, quicktime is also one of those hellbent to intrude your booting sequence in windows. Another of course is as we all know, Windows Messenger.

Great Topic. Software reviewers could help by always mentioning the program's impact on registry, RAM, etc. and/or how a user can minimize the instusions. For example, Real Player is not as bad as it used to be, in part becuase they realized how they pissed off people.

My pet peeve is MS messenger, which I sometimes use, but won't shut off, claiming it shares resourse with Outlook and other programs I have no idea what they are. Even shutting Outlook is not enough. Morover, I have this old version (4.7) of messenger that pops up to and I can't purge.

OK, everyone having problems uninstalling MS Messenger on Windows XP. It's really easy to uninstall.

UNINSTALLING MS Messenger FOR WINDOWS XP:

-Start>Control Panel>Add/Remove Hardware
-Click on Add/Remove Windows Components
-uncheck Messenger
-Click OK

I would also like to mention that all IMs, media programs (quicktime, etc) have options to turn off system tray icons and startup crap. (many have these options available during the install process, but most people skip past them)

I have SBC Yahoo DSL - I have been really happy with the service, I used to have road runner and internet connection would be unavailable at least 2 times a month for more than an hour each time. In a year and a half with SBC I've only had the connection drop once.

So now for the complaint. SBC offers a virus scanner / firewall / antispy program for free. My Norton ran out so I thought I would try it and save a few bucks. It works decent, I don't care much about features as long as it keeps the system secure. The problem - when I installed it it also gave me a SBC Internet Explorer browser (takes about 8 seconds longer to bring it up on my machine) that refuses to stop being my default browser. I am used to switching file associations and, that not being successfully, went to SBC for help. Their help suggestions wont even turn it off. If I didn't like the reliability of the ISP so much I'd have switched by now.

I don't use Norton/Symantec software anymore. It lowers system performance instead as boosting it contrary to what it seems to be its real purpose. I like my computer real clean, not much stuff installed just the necessary ones and that makes Windows run fine fine fine. And no trials, no demos (demos are demoniac), no evals... only the plain retail versions of truly good software.

There's this HijackThis utility that I use when I need to remove ad/spy/arroware. It scans your registry and points out those who infest your IE, Windows start-up etc. If you're into registry hacking this one is for you. It even backs up all modifications so u can restore your system in case you **** up with it.

Haha, you cant take qucktime out of msconfig on my computer. Must be the update on it but there is no way to take it off of startup that I can see right now. Thats what I am researching at the moment.

Exactly! Those arrowares make your computer slower and slower, and you can never totally remove them. Why would I buy a software which makes me have to reinstall OS? Why I buy a software but cannot get rid of those "functions" i don't need???
I love those softwares which don't register anything in the registy, such as total commander, opera, irfanview, etc. Registry could do nothing but make a mass.
FYI: Windows itself is a big arroware, not the worst, however.

Thumb up! Lincoln Spector!

I got spamed by an email sent to me by somone I trusted. It tells you that you can earn up to 2,500 just by sending this wonderfull offer to everyone on your address list. I did it because I trusted my friend. I don't even think she sent it to me. Also, I want recommed registry mechanic, and nod32, both programs have saved me from stupid.

With Windows XP Professional (No SPs), I was able to remove Windows Messenger. Alas, now that I've installed SP2, I have been unable to uninstall it, tried disabling autorun, and such things. No luck. It simply reinstalls the cursed thing again and again...Microsoft, you should be buying me a new computer damn it!

Just wondering if there is anyway to uninstall Norton Internet Security? It tells me I have to be an administrator to uninstall on my personal XP (where I am administrator). My ISP is giving us McAfee free and I can't get rid of Norton to installMcAfee. When I used the help on Symantec, I altered the registry with step by step instructions, I was left with no Internet ability and had to do a System Restore to get back funtionality.

This is the first Blog I have ever looked at. I find (from long experience) people's comments concerning Norton (Symantec) programs to be 100% accurate. Never again will I be suckered into a Norton install. Real Player used to take over one's computer, but I have no idea how it is today. I have many other "favorites" for the do not use list, but I appreciate other people's input.

I would like to make a suggestion regarding the removal of arrogant software. After I uninstall the software I first look to see if its folder is still within the programs folder and if it is I delete it. If it can't be deleted then I check to see where the undeleted file is running and stop it, then return to the folder and try deleting it again. Eventually it gets deleted. Then I run the program: Registry First Aid which will delete all the safe registry entries including all the ones attached to the arrogant program, and then I defrag the hard drive. This usually does the trick.
When first installing a program you can always set the 'SYSTEM RESTORE' beforehand; and execute the restore if you don't like the way the program acts. This has saved me on several occassions.

There is no way I can disagree with all the negative comments about Norton And Symantec.

Thumbs up for the article long overdue. I dual boot with Windows and Linux so I don't have much of a hassle and being a comp tech, it is easy to avoid some of the pitfuls. I've dumped Norton years ago and use bitdefender that blocks those autoruns during installation along with zonealarm. RealMedia has changed over the past few months. It now offers you with the choice of configure or take over all media. My take on this, always chose "custom install". But there are a few programs that don't offer such and believe they own your pc. For those struggling to remove Windows Messenger on their XP machines (all flavours of XP that is including SP 2) here's a neat trick that takes it out for good: Click on START then RUN and type in the following "RunDll32 advpack.dll,LaunchINFSection %windir%\INF\msmsgs.inf,BLC.Remove" of course, don't include the quotes. Click OK and voila, your nightmares with WindowsMessenger is gone. For the guy with quicktime headaches, I recommend going to the preferences section. There's also a program called autoruns from Sysinternals that is way better than msconfig that allows you to control what starts up under the "logon" tab. Try it out just don't touch anything else UNLESS you know what you're doing.

Removal of NAV or other reluctant software is difficult to remove because the CODE is embedded in DOS sometimes hidden like virus code. That is how that software is so reliant and slealthy.BOOT into safe mode, press Ctrl-Alt-Delete after signing in as Administrator and kill any process that is related to the reluctant software,DO NOT kill explorer.exe as then the computer will reboot then, moreover after stopping those processes then you will be able to remove the software. Norton can be easily removed by inserting the disc in full mode (regular boot)..Then follow the directions.

I see what you mean. I have a program called StarWare and have been unable to remove it. I have cleaned the register, used Zone Alarm, and Norton's System works. so far NOTHING. They give you an installer but it does not remove the program

But what about "Inqwire?" A new threat! Tried using five different, top-rated programs...and msconfig...and registry cleaners. This is persistent!

hehe, i have had only one program that in the uninstalation i had to fill out all these infomation dialogs to say why i was uninstalling it then after that i had to go through 5-6 Yes im sure i want to uninstall you thingy's and after that it still wasnt gone :D and all i can do is laugh lol

I'm just as frustrated as everyone else with Norton Internet Security. I paid for the upgrade but it wouldn't download so I'm spending huge amounts of time trying to get a refund. What do you recommend instead? I don't like mcafee either.

When you walk in the fields and open air, you step on little
live things but it doesn`t seem to faze you. It`s exactly what
the software makers and worm scatterers are doing.
Eventually the ire of the trodden will rain like fire on those
denizens. They should be sent to the blazing xxxx(rymes with
bell).

If so many people hate Norton/Symantec software what do they use...

What the hell are you talking about THE11thROCK™

Many years ago, when Norton didn't load all it's "extras" and AOL was 5.0, we didn't have all the arroware that the makers decided to install on our computers. I learned to trust them. That is, until they kept "improving" their products. The last time I used Norton was 2005. I couldn't get rid of it. Finally reinstalled my OS. All I use from AOL now is their free email. Yeah, I know they still left some of their crap on my 'puter, but it's under control now. ZA doesn't let it connect except for my email. Macafee is another bloatware I don't use any longer. I used Window Washer when it was free. When they made it a phone home pack, I removed that, too. It seems to me that all these packages need less bloat, more concentration on what they do. No software is perfect. Improve it, don't spy on us.